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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Watch News and Reviews > Is this a perfect pilot watch? |
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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Watch News and Reviews > Is this a perfect pilot watch? |
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| Is this a perfect pilot watch? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 01:08 pm |
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1st Post |
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carlottt 3T WIS
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I posted this in another forum but thought to share this with you too. Is this a perfect Pilot watch? Maybe not, but it is very close, at least for me. This is a a watch from Wilson Watch Works. I actually got this from another forum member a week ago after he had it only for a few weeks. The watch had been too big for his wrist but fits just perfectly on my 8 1/4" wrist. It is not the usual looks as it is not the more common manual wound with the small second hand at 6 or 9 o'clock, using the 6497-6498 type movements. This is a lot less available due to the parts and movement that is New Old Stock and I guess available only in small quantities. I believe that only a handful of such models have been produced. The specifications from Wilson Watch Works are: Case: Milled from 316L solid stainless steel and brushed to a matte finish with a highly polished bezel and domed sapphire crystal. Threaded solid brushed case back with oversized German polished diamond crown. Factory pressure tested to 3ATM. Dial: Black pilot applied with white indexes, black framed hand set applied with white C1 luminescent material. Movement: Swiss made Fabriques D’ Horlogerie De Fontainemelon S.A. FHF ST96-4 movements. These movements are all NOS gold or nickel plated hand wind movements with a center sweep second and Incabloc shock protection. To expand a bit from these specifications I have to say that the size of the case is 47 mm in diameter, the lugs are 22 mm wide. I believe that smaller cases are also available on the 42-43mm range.  This is a big watch, however not overly so. It is essentially the same size as the original NAV-B from Steinhart/Debaufre. I use to have one of these, the one with the manual wound Unitas 6497 movement. The size, quality of the case and the fit and finish are comparable and this is saying something as Debaufre is a really high quality watch. This flieger from Wilson Watch Works is every bit as good.  The crown is big and easy to grab, the winding action is super smooth and positive. The adjustment of the time is equally easy to do. Not that you need to do this often as this watch keeps time within 1-2 seconds per day. For the past 7 days it has been on my wrist, it has gained not even 10 seconds total time. Is this impressive? It is to me. This movement FHF is apparently several years old movement that has been cleaned up and oiled, adjusted etc. and so far it is an absolutely fantastic and flawless performer.  The sapphire crystal is a nice touch, it is slighlty domed but does not deform or magnify the view of the dial at all. Not sure if there is any sort of antireflective treatment but so far I have had zero problem in reading the very legible dial and hands combination even if there is a slight reflection of the light at times. The black of the dial is kind of matte and the white of the hour markers and the hands stand out easily to give the time at a glance. The hands are white luminous paint framed with black paint and on a quick look it seems that they are floating on the dial. One thing that I like is that the second hand is central and not smaller on the side or at the bottom of the dial. Of course this is a matter of individual taste, and I find it more likable to me this way.  The markers luminous paint is well applied and there is a certain amount of it, the lume is pretty normal in brightness, meaning this is no match for a Seiko Monster. However it is legible at all times and lasts through the night. The hands are slightly brighter then the markers as you can see in the photos.  The caseback is sterile and well made, The whole combination is well assembled and a great product. I find this a very solid watch, nice to touch, wonderful to wind, beatiful to look at, a pleasure to wear, easy to consult to know what time it is. What else can you desire? A good price? That's included. The watch favorably compare with other watches of the same type and quality. To me it is every bit as good as the Debaufre NAV-B that I had and the Archimede Pilot that I currently have.  I put on a Debaufre 22mm buffalo leather XL strap. Originally it came on a Leather Nato that is actually really nice quality but found that the Nato type straps tend ot lift the watch off the wrist even if so slightly, and I prefer when the watch literally "hugs" the wrist. As a matter of I prefer low profile watches that don't stick out like the Pisa Tower from the wrist as this make them prone to come in violent close encounter with walls, door frames, rough surfaces etc. that tend to leave their signature on the watch crystal or bezel.  I know that there are other pilot type watches talked about but unfortunately I never had the luck or chance to own one or even see one in the flesh. This Wilson Watch Works flieger is an impressive watch that not only is quality made, but is also very affordable. Not much else to say, other then this is a great package and while not a "branded" watch, it is a great deal. In fact if you want you can even get photos of the watch parts and some of the steps of the assembly. In fact you can choose your various parts and combination including case size, dial, markers color, finish of the case, etc. In short you can literally "make your own watch". Where else can you get that?  I hope I have been able to explain the reason for my beginning statement: there are no faults and there are no problems, in fact I cannot find any negative point on this watch. There seem to be just goodness, quality and functionality. If anything this watch has an air of vintage and true old style pilot timepiece, from the manual winding to the lack of date window, from the nice legible numbered to the to the large size, everything gives it a flair of good old watch. Unfortunately my limited photographic skills don't allow me to show the full beauty of this watch but I hope that I gave at least a bit of a taste of it and I hope they are enough for you to enjoy.    
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 01:57 pm |
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2nd Post |
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natevan70 3T WIS 
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Looks good! I've been thinking of checking out WWW; from the posts I've seen they seem like nice builds.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 03:35 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Nabco 3T WIS 
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Congrats Carlo, a great looking watch If you refer to this link there is some more info on that particular movement and it's history, one of our other members purchased a watch with that movement last year http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=18238&forum_id=1
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 05:08 pm |
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4th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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Congrats on your WWW Carlo and TY for the review... and since you asked...imo the under $200. version offered by Samson on eBay shown in Nicks link would be the perfect pilot for cost alone in comparison to the WWW version since they are both Chinese and use the same movement aaand....more than likely the exact same watches from the exact same origins......hand6.gif just a side note:....it's only a matter of time before WWW is contacted by Richmont Group/IWC for using their well known pilots dial... since they claim being in the U.S.A it leaves WWW open for suit to cease production... ..DeBaufre was sued over just this and forced/decided to stop producing the Nav-B in lieu of spending a gang of $$$$ to fight it ....the DeBaufre Nav-B has become collectible just because of this imo....and yes you are hearing this for the 1st time here on 3T... ...you may ask why was DeBaufre sued when everyone uses this dial?...well if you are a watch company in the U.S.A certain rights regarding infringement are enforced by law opposed to countries like Singapore or Germany where you can't get sued over copying a watch design or dial.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 09:17 pm |
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5th Post |
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carlottt 3T WIS
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Thanks a lot for the nice comments and the good data, one learns more every day. I actually don't own this watch anymore as I sold it about 10 days ago... Someone asked me about it and he really liked it and wanted it so I gave it away. But I thought that the data on it would be good for whoever could be interested and anyway I know that a WIS loves to see photos... Nevertheless the case of the watch, which I assume is what is considered to be produced in China, is really nice and well made. Nice quality finish and I think good looking. I was really impressed by the timekeeping of this watch, literally almost like a quartz watch, and the winding so smoooth... I think that WWW does his own regulation and adjusting and he does it professionally. I never heard of Samson but it sounds really interesting and I will check it out. Not that I want to buy another one of these pilot watches at the moment, but it is always good to know what the market offer so that one is not stuck with one or two products only. Interesting to know about the history of the problems with Debaufre. They had already problems with their former name in the US (Steinhart) and now this... WWW is really small time and this particular watch has been built probably only a handful of times so not sure if it is enough for some big company to bother with, but then again who knows. It would be bad as Chris from WWW is a good guy and his watches are really well made and high quality products... Anyway, right now I have my sights on a Seiko SRP043 or the Kamikaze diver as it is called in another post...  Last edited on Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 09:22 pm by carlottt |
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2010 02:04 am |
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6th Post |
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natevan70 3T WIS
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oagaspar wrote:
Interesting..this is a pretty popular dial style, showing up on watches everywhere. The ones I know of are made out of the U.S. though. I learn something new every day here!
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| Posted: Thu May 13th, 2010 03:11 pm |
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7th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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...it's only a matter of time before WWW is contacted by Richmont Group/IWC for using their well known pilots dial... Well, first: Congrats on this cool pilot! I'm late on this because I was gone on the job when this post appeared apparently... Second: About your note Oscar, I don't contest but I thought that this design was inspired from WW2 era pilot watches and not specialy affiliated to IWC as there was other German fabricants who was using those dials...Do I mistake? If so, how IWC or Richmont Group can appropriate themself this type of dial or case as a registered design, in front of any law? Even they get it as they want in the US, Richmont is not really threaten by American "copies". The Asian market is the one to fear and they ridiculously fight little trades on the wrong soil... Because that's apparently everything they can do: Using American laws on American soil and thinking that they fight a world wide matterhammer.gif Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
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| Posted: Thu May 13th, 2010 03:46 pm |
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8th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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you are right Will as far as each country having their own set of laws pertaining to copyrights and patent infringement...but this particular dial design is claimed to have been 1st introduced by IWC in 1940: The Big Pilot's Watch:  The Big Pilot's Watch: Supplied to the German Luftwaffe in 1940 in an edition of 1,000 watches. With a case diameter of 55mm, a height of 16.5mm and a weight of 183g, it was the most imposing IWC wristwatch ever built.
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| Posted: Thu May 13th, 2010 04:11 pm |
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9th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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oagaspar wrote:you are right Will as far as each country having their own set of laws pertaining to copyrights and patent infringement...but this particular dial design is claimed to have been 1st introduced by IWC in 1940: I see... Well, the only thing they may have "invented" is the top 12 marker desing with the triangle and points because for the rest they got nothing to claim... So that's little. And since 90% of those dials are made in Asia even they get mounted in other countries, IWC is fighting with fists agaisnt the wind for a "Hairy triangle splitting a pair of balls"...  Thanks for the comment Oscar!
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| Posted: Thu May 13th, 2010 04:33 pm |
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10th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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when it comes to the B-Uhr dial design that most companies copy or like to call homages these 5 companies listed below all lay claim to 1 design or another and also as being 1st...take your pick ...they all look the same to me! A. Lange & Söhne Laco (Lacher & Co) Stowa (Walter Storz) Wempe (Chronometerwerke Hamburg) IWC
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| Posted: Thu May 13th, 2010 04:52 pm |
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11th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Right Oscar. That's those companies I was speaking about when I was naming that others(German fabricants) used this dial during this time period. It seems that in all this confusion, the only one who will claim the originating of this dial, is the one who got enough fonds to waste in a stupid law suite on American courts... IWC can thanks Richmont group for those fonds because before they get bought by Richmonts, they was unable to do that...
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| Posted: Fri May 14th, 2010 12:27 am |
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12th Post |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS 
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Carlottt, first of all, that was a good review and I like the pilot design a lot. Everything about your WWW is great except water resist rating of 3ATM (of course, pilots aren't expected to be in the water) like my Steinhart and Debaufre' NavBs. That's the only debit for me. Goliath might soon go after several Davids for design copyright infringements. But to me, since I already have both pilots and as there's a bonus because as Oscar says (and I agree), they are even going to be more collectible. What I'd really consider doing is either buying it back from your buddy or getting the Samson. One must always have at least one pilot in his collection.
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