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| MiiK LRRP | Rating: 
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 02:50 am |
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13th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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Begin Rant// I personally disagree with that: I prefer screw-in lugs. Also it depend how they are builded: One side with the screw-driver gap and the other side with thread is the best. Screw gap on both sides implicate a screw-driver on each sides when take-off and is a tricky stuff to accomplish without scratching the lugs. Better got teflon-tape around for that:? So why do I prefer screw-lugs??? Solidity, security! With divers or big watches even I am not diving, I understand that divers desire this security to do not loose them watch in the deep: Specialy if they used it for timing them dive. I tell you a real story also: Some years ago, I heard about a guy in the US who was sailing with his little boat on the coast, having a sweet day under the sun and a fine breeze...Until his wrist grabed the sail's border during a manipulation(or something like that..) and his new Rolex submariner poped-out of its springbars, diving on its own in the deep: Byebye money! I guess that it sound like a silly story but silly things don't only happen to others... Also most serious military watches got screw-lugs like the Panerai models for exemple;)... Now, guess why the Mil.Sub got solid bars? Here's a little explanation about how "..one pin fails": http://diving-watch.org/MILSUB-MILITARY-ISSUE-ROLEX-SUBMARINER- Don't forget that MIIK make military inspired models.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 04:23 am |
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14th Post |
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IanM 3T WIS 
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You mean you can take better pics than THAT?? face4.gif Nice one, Chris. And while I can see the possibility of mods (cos you are great at them) I kinda like the original - its perfect as is! Enjoy it! IanM hand6.gif
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 10:34 pm |
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15th Post |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS 
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Hammerfjord wrote:
The Mil Sub got fixed pins BUT it also was used only with a nato or zulu strap not bracelets. This was for safty as well as security. With a Nato or zulu strap you are free to loose at least one spring bar and the watch will remain attached to your wrist too so that makes the Nato/Zulu a good security device in any case. From a safty standpoint the watch really needs to be able to seperate from your wrist in at least two places, with springbars that means the watch head and the clasp, if you catch your watch on a sail for example or in machinery it is far better for your watch to come off than for you to get tossed in the sea or get wrapped around a piece of billet spinning at 5000 rpm... Fortis has the best system for screw pins I have seen, no threads in the watch head and a keyed pin with a screw. double screw systems as you pointed out are difficult to manage. The reason I don't like screws is that they pose a long term service problem, only smaller watch companies use them and that means 10 years from now they simply won't be available when you strip a thread or loose a screw so you will be converting to springbars or not wearing the watch anymore.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27th, 2010 11:24 pm |
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16th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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The Mil Sub got fixed pins BUT it also was used only with a nato or zulu strap not bracelets. This was for safty as well as security. I understand and know the point with the nato strap: But those watches with screw-bars are not made to be used only on nato straps and when used on bracelets/leather straps, screw-bars hold better. But springbars become a weak point: Just one who loose on the bracelet and the watch is off as you know. I work myself in the oil industry and know very well the problem with machinery but the rule number one if you work very close to spinning machinery is: No rings, no bracelets, no necklace of any kind, no watch and so on. Still, I saw some guys getting the gloves or sleeves tooken into machines and beeing wounded: A twisted sleeve of working cloths can lift a man's weight, so you are allways in danger if too close to spinning machinery. A bracelet who whould break anyway at a pulling-point of maybe 25-30kg , the springbars would loose earlyer. Security is important but we can't sail naked for that, so in those situations, we have to make a choice anyway: Actualy, the best in my meaning is to wear tight thin gloves who comes over the watch to avoid hookings like that. I agree that the screws are not a random product who's made on large scales in all forms(except for Pams: Look on the net, those screws can be bought by hundreds...) But it's like everything else: Who garantie us 100% that Ball will be there in 25 years to replace them luminous tubes? The quartz revolution is the typical exemple of unplaned downfalls who killed many brands and made parts difficult to get... Parts stocks never last forever and anyway there's a bunch of bad springbars on the market: It's actualy not easy to get top aftermarket quality who fit perfectly the holes in your lugs. We just have to live with that and try to hold carefully on the screws/parts anyway... I got nothing against springbars and don't call them "idiots" as they serve what we take them for: I just got my meaning on them... Last edited on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 11:29 pm by Hammerfjord |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 01:28 am |
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17th Post |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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I don't dispute that screws are stronger and hold better. I am just not convinced the better strengh and hold are worth the extra trouble they can create. I've had more watches fall apart from missing screws than I've had springbar failures so I already know from experience that I am more likely to loose a watch from screws than springbars, I have of course learned to use loctite but the simple solution would be to use springbars and pins unless it was necessary. Panerai would be a great example of a watch where screws are necessary, large lugs and the heavy case make screws a superior choice but a smaller sized diver like the LRRP probably doesn't "need" screws. I'm not dismissing all screws as "idiot screws" I think they are being overused as a fashion item and by smaller watch companies where cheap screws are much more of a problem than cheap springbars would be.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 06:17 am |
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18th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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OldeCrow wrote:I don't dispute that screws are stronger and hold better. I am just not convinced the better strengh and hold are worth the extra trouble they can create. I agree that there is a certain problem with screws when the system is not thought-off and I signalised it yesterday in this thread:http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=19515&forum_id=30 We scratch our cases with impossible spring-pins to catch in tight lugs-bracelets gaps and we scratch our lugs when slipping out from straight screw-heads... The Megalodon(Benarus) and the Funfhundert(Kazimon) are a great exemple of hexagonal screw-heads who avoid that ripping problem and gives more torque to the tightening process, avoiding loose screws on regular basis for big watches. Actualy Panerai screws are far to be the best to work on...But them design is old/vintage and maybe they want to stick to it by tradition and design respect... However: I've been struggeling on my side with pins who bended out and weakened. But I got very few little watches(5 pieces: Omega Deville,Zenith square Elite, Revue, Cortebert,Doxa) and I never use them: Only the Zenith Elite goes out when I dress for special occasions because little watches look really funny on me. I will open a topic about screw-head choices and hopefully, we will inspire some fabricants doing a better job for this option. The others can allways go for the pins if they want ;) I guess that Bill Yao been using screw-bars on your model to respect the look and strength of vintage diving/military watches... I would recommand you the Loctite 242(blue threadlocker) : I use it on the job. The material fasten your thread without glueing it too hard as it's a slightly elastic material. You will take out your screws without breaking/damaging them later on... The glue loctite or super-glue is not what I would use: If it's that you are using...?
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 05:59 pm |
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19th Post |
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rich8628 3T WIS 
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Enjoy the MKII! I was actually considering one of these, ended up with the Sinn 857 because I needed to burn up alot of WatchBuy points!. But for overall value and quality, you can't beat the MKII GMT!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 04:24 am |
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20th Post |
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sharkfin 3T WIS 
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Nice pics my friend. Stunning watch. ;)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 10:53 am |
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21st Post |
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goldengrr 3T WIS 
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Great pics, great looking watch!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 01:31 pm |
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22nd Post |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wrote:
242 is what I use for bracelet screws etc! :) The superglue works great for crown/stem threads though because it's solid at room temp but you can heat it up with a match or lighter and it softens so you can remove the crown again if you need to. I really was just "stirring the pot" with the "idiot screw" comments I thought it would be good to have a discussion about the merits of springbars and screws for the members who haven't given them much thought before. Bills watches are always amazing it's as much an homage to the classic explorer as it is to the classic sub and he makes so few of them that you won't find more exclusive company anywhere for the money!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 01:47 pm |
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23rd Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Certainly thrue, they seems to be great watches: I don't own any MIIK but they are very tempting...hand6.gif
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