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OldeCrow 3T WIS 
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I thought I would share an Orient service story. You may recall back in mid November I received an Orange Mako. I was quite excited to get it as it wasn't and still isn't available in the US market and it was even hard to find in the Asia markets but one obscure eBay dealer in the UK had somehow got his hands on a few of them and had them for sale. It took me a couple of days to realize that there was actually something wrong with it, the screw down nut on the day pusher would not tighten down against the case. Instead it would thread down and off the threads in the pusher assembly and then spin freely against the case. There are a number of problems with this though it wouldn't immediately effect water resistance it would eventually cause problems. I a friend of mine (aka Garwal) made a phone call to the US distributor of Orients (aka Mark Chang Kim) and he offered to fix it for me even though I had not bought it from a US AD. He did ask me (through Garwal) to provide all the information about the eBay seller that I bought it from which I was happy to do since our US distributor clearly doesn't have any say in how orients are distributed anyway it certainly won't hurt to feed his delusions of grandeur. I should note that I haven't' ever talked to Mark personally though he has suggested I do so It feels like violating the chain of command for me to call him personally. At any rate The Orange Mako stayed in LA for two months, I sent it on 11/28/07 and received it back on 1/31/2008 what I got back was My Orange mako with the screw down day pusher just as broken as when I sent it in. It did come back with a white sticker on the back and in the package was an internal work order slip with the problem written in English and Spanish. I am left wondering how many ways a repair can go wrong when there are at least three languages being spoken in one repair center. After receiving my Orange Mako back still broken I chanted “fool me once” and promptly bought a rubber strap Black dial/bezel Mako from eBay (for less than our US distributor sells them for by the way) to use for parts if I actually needed to replace the pusher. When the Black dial Orient arrived I quickly swapped the Orange dial and movement into the new case and put the Orange dial caseback on the new case (just in case the gibberish on the case back is model specific) to complete a perfect CEM65001. With my Orange Mako back in operation I took the bad pusher assembly apart and quickly discerned that all it needed was for the pusher tube to be seated further into the case so that the screw down nut would reach the case before it ran off the threads so with the tap of my hammer on a piece of steel round stock that fit the shoulder on the pusher tube I had it fixed. Within 10 minutes I had it fixed and all back together and the black dial and movement assembled in the original orange case with the now fixed day pusher. I know you are asking “If I could have fixed it to begin with why didn’t I?” The answer is I am lazy and it was during the holiday season and I have a real job that was keeping me busy at the time too so sending it in for repairs seemed like a good idea at the time. The moral of the story is, people suck ass, and if you want something done right you have to do it you self.   |
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hucky 3T WIS 
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The moral of the story is, people suck ass, and if you want something done right you have to do it you self. To generalize here, in todays world it is all too true! At least you can fix it yourself.  |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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well I have been chewing on writing something about this for over a week, I am sure I could have sent it back again but I reach a point where I get tired of wasting money for postage and it simply want to declare war on a small country... Thanks for indulging my rant, I've got it out of my system now! :) |
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Paxman 3T WIS 
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Glad that was cathartic for you, Chris. Its a pisser when service is so far below expectations to be non-existent. Do you feel the outcome would have been any different had you purchased from the U.S. distributor? Probably not. I would hope this is an isolated anomaly, but it is rather disconcerting to have repair orders written in multiple languages... I'm certain your homespun repair will last a lifetime!!cool10.gif |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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I imagine it was just an "oops" that it escaped repair, perhaps they overhauled the movement instead In any case It did give me a chance to inspect the Mako design a bit closer and It is nice to know it was designed for service rather than disposal. The pusher assembly is held in with a "c" clip so it can be removed and re-gasketed. |
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KenC Admin 
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I'm not surprised. While I think very highly of Orient Watches, I think the company has made an extremely poor choice for a US Distributor. I attempted to deal with Mark Chang Kim a few years back on the attempted purchase of Orient's high end "Star" (I believe that was the watch). At any rate, the impression of Mr. Kim that I came away with is that he values service to the customer in about the same way as Eyal Lalo! He was the epitome of arrogance. Orient is a great product. With the right channels of distribution and/or distributor in the US, they could become a major factor...It is obvious to me why they are not! |
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e.avery 3T WIS 
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OldeCrow wrote: well I have been chewing on writing something about this for over a week, I am sure I could have sent it back again but I reach a point where I get tired of wasting money for postage and it simply want to declare war on a small country... What country would you like to take over and what is the budget and time frame? |
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Paxman 3T WIS
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e.avery wrote: OldeCrow wrote:well I have been chewing on writing something about this for over a week, I am sure I could have sent it back again but I reach a point where I get tired of wasting money for postage and it simply want to declare war on a small country... face4.gif  face4.gif |
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KenC Admin
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e.avery wrote: OldeCrow wrote:well I have been chewing on writing something about this for over a week, I am sure I could have sent it back again but I reach a point where I get tired of wasting money for postage and it simply want to declare war on a small country... You will need seasoned Infantry Troops!   |
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canadajo 3T WIS 
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 cool10.gif |
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IW 3T WIS 
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I've been "hemming and hawing" over saying anything on this thread for a few days now, and I feel I had to say something. Am I the only one who thinks the seller is responsible to repair / replace? If you bought a big screen Sony TV at best buy, got it home, found out it didn't work, would you go to Sony? No, you'd go to Best Buy. It was gracious enough of Puritime to even look at the watch for you, when clearly they didn't have to. I find it funny that you call Orient and the personnel out by name, but don't even mention the seller that sold you the bum watch. I will say that I talk to Mark weekly, meet with him at least once a year, and I think he is one of the most gracious folks out there in the watch industry. Orient is my favorite brand; not only because of the product, but the people. You should also get a feeling for how difficult it can be for Puritime to deal with Orient Japan, when Orient Japan doesn't think too highly of the US market anyway (ie, the limited distribution of Star, and no Royals) I don't mean any hard feelings or ill words, just my thoughts and 2 cents. Thanks- Marc |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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Marc As always I believe my opinion of you is justified, as a person of honor and respect your opinion. Even though I did not have the problem with the time piece, I thank you for your thoughts. Avery |
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canadajo 3T WIS
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I dont think there were ill words or hard feelings ... I think you spoke from what you know as an insider..... and you would know what the deal is with Orient .... The anology with the TV hit home ....as I am a car dealer, and when I sell a GM product and the car has a problem, the buyer comes to me, and expects only me to fix it ....I am responsible .....a very good point you made |
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KenC Admin
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IW wrote: I've been "hemming and hawing" over saying anything on this thread for a few days now, and I feel I had to say something. While Orient is also a favorite brand of mine, I can't agree with you on your premise. Best Buy (your example) is a value added retailer, but Best Buy does NOT warranty the products they sell...the manufacturer of the product does. As a value added retailer, they may have a corporate replacement policy for a few days after purchase, but rarely for the lifetime of the warranty period. (as an example, Gamestop, a large national game & system retailer, sells you a Nintendo Game System. They have a 7-day exchange policy, but after that, you send it into Nintendo for repair). That said, a really high-end value added retailer may handle the warranty process for you, but they do NOT warranty the product during the factory warranty period, unless, perhaps, they have an in-store, additional cost, extended warranty that you have purchased. I just had a stick of RAM go bad. I bought it at Best Buy. I had to deal with Micron Technologies for replacement under warranty. Perhaps my dealings with Mark came on one of his "bad hair" days...or perhaps, if Orient Japan had a better representative for their product in the US, who got their products aggressively into the consumer's hands, Orient-Japan may have a higher regard for the US Market...certainly Seiko (Orient's major shareowner), Citizen, Nissan, Toyota, Honda and other major Japanese businesses do...Perhaps it's because they developed strong channels of distribution that cared about delivery and service to the end user, and Orient, due to a poor selection process (or whatever) made a mistake in developing theirs! Gracious does not necessarily equate to effective! Bottom line, if Mark at Puritime said they would take care of it, he should have taken care of it instead of "holding" it for 2 months and returning it to Crow not repaired. Granted, his "people" did it...he is responsible for his people. Again, you will not hear me say anything negative about Orient watches. I strongly believe that they are quality products. |
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IW 3T WIS
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glad this didn't turn into a slug fest! thanks for listening. I have never had anybody buy something from me, have it break 10 days later, and them say to me "tell me where to send it to the manufacturer for repair"; they say "I'm sending it back to you". You know how the say the lonliest man is the Maytag repair man? Well, that's the Orient repair people. I've sold them for years, and can count on 1 hand the quantity that I've had to send back for repair. So maybe that's why they can't repair 'em |
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KenC Admin
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IW wrote: glad this didn't turn into a slug fest! thanks for listening. Marc...again, I think the world of Orient watches (and you as a dealer)...I own 4 Orients and have had zero problems, but, to illustrate a point, when my new Hamilton Aviation Chrono went south, I had to send it to the Manufacturers' Service Center...not to the store! They kept it for 4 weeks with 2 major problems...the difference being, when I got back, IT WAS FIXED! |
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IW 3T WIS
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then your seller sucked big time. I give people a few weeks to discover any issues. So did my dad with his business. How could you treat a customer any other way? I'll eat a watch if I have too. |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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Marc has eaten one of my watches in order to take responsibility for someone elses mistake, against my wishes, but he stood behind his product period. So I give weight to his thoughts, more than most. Ken I also respect your opinion and experience, which is why I would post here. I bid you all a good night. |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS 
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IW wrote: then your seller sucked big time. I give people a few weeks to discover any issues. So did my dad with his business. Just don't let your son see you do that Marc. :D |
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IW 3T WIS
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:shock::shock::shock: |
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IW 3T WIS
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Thanks CJ |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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IW wrote: I've been "hemming and hawing" over saying anything on this thread for a few days now, and I feel I had to say something. I am more than happy to say who the seller was, http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZparispike I would buy from him again, he offered to exchange the watch but the offer from Mark came up before I had sent it back to the UK. I'm sure I misunderstood you but it sounds like you are saying I should just light a fire with the warranty papers and deal only with the seller, and I shouldn't be irritated because Mark is a nice guy with a tough job? I don't think I'm out of line being irritated by the whole thing. @#$% happens I don't hold a grudge, I'm sure he is not proud that a watch left there still in need of repairs but $10.00 in shipping too many times for a $90.00 watch gets kind of silly so there is not much left to do but complain about it and hope it goes better the next time. There's no hard feelings here, "hemming and hawing" is like needing to barf, you feel much better once you get it out! |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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In following this thread it seems to me that if the seller would have been contacted 1st with the problem instead of a middle man contacting the U.S.distributor for a repair you could have saved yourself from a whole lot of aggravation and no complaints other than having to return the watch to the seller who seems to have offered to do the right thing in replacing the watch  ...just my 2 cents Buddy:) |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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O I appreciate all the comments and thoughts on the matter! For the record I did make arraingements to return the watch to the seller first but Mark offered to fix it before I had actaully taken any action. I still woudn't have sent it back to the seller because it would have had to go back to the UK at my expense so at this point I was poised to buy a parts watch in case I needed it for repairs. I also want to take a moment to clarify IW's post for anyone who wasn't paying close attention, IW is a retailer for Orient, he buys them from the guy I sent mine to for repairs, His motives for defending the brand are financial and not purely humanitarian. The tone of IW's post certainly drums up sympathy for the Distributor but still doesn't explain why it's OK to camp on a watch for two months and send it back without repairing it. |
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IW 3T WIS
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I'm not hiding anything, nor intended to. Yup, that's me. Authorized US retailer for Orient Wristwatches. No, its not an excuse to sit on the watch for 2 months. That isn't right, no matter who it is. I'm not gonig to comment anymore in this thread for it is going the wrong way. |
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KenC Admin
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OldeCrow wrote: O Crow...I hear you, and the CSR SVC from the distributor is exactly the issue I was trying to address. I like Orient Watches, and I think Island Watch is a quality dealer. In the same vein, I also think Orient Watch has done itself and the US market a disservice in the selection of their US Distributors...Puritime made a commitment and utterly failed to meet it, pure and simple! |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Well it seems this thread is turning imho.....I personally choose those I buy from carefully and have never gone solely on lowest price but more on best service and for this reason I buy from Marc/IW if it is an Orient or most any brand he carries....he stands behind his merch 100%hand6.gif I am not defending Marc nor do I receive compensation from him as his existance on this forum is based solely on our long friendship and my experience in dealing with him so since this has turned into a who's defending who thread and the only parties I know involved are Crow and Marc I am debating closing this thread before it get's ugly so Please let's keep it on topic and respectful of others.....I believe Chris and his anxiety he sufferred at the hands of Orient also based on our friendship as he is one of the good guys as well as being a very knowledgeable WIS I have turned to on many occasions for info and help and agree he shouldn't have had to go through all the BS he did...so let's all learn from this and move on as friends |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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Marc I am so sorry, I got up and kicked you in the teeth first thing this morning before I had my coffee. I don’t think anybody here will dispute the Quality of Orient watches or the Character of either Marc or Mark being discussed here. This really never was about whom I bought it from, who sells what or who services what, It was just (supposed to be) a “bitch session” about going without a watch for two months only to get it back just as broken and then find out even Little IW could have fixed it just by banging it on the kitchen table a couple times. I should have worded my first post better to begin with and we probably could have avoided all the "hemming and hawing". Group hug!happy1.gif @Ken Ken I vaguely remember you had a bad experience talking to the other MarK. whatever bad vibe you got from him aside our Marc eluded to the very nasty politics involved when it comes to doing business with Orient Japan. I would encourage you to consider that I know most of the problem with Orient distribution is Orient Japan not our Distributor. The bottom line is Orient Japan is in control of what they send to the US market. So far they have been unwilling to send us anything but the cheap stuff. They almost mustered the courage to roll out the Orient Star line a couple years ago and at the last minute chicken s*&ted out. (thats right and the US distributor is still sitting on a couple boxes of Orient stars too) There may have been some pressure from Seiko to back off so they could roll out some of their high end stuff instead or somebody may have just had bad gas and decided it was a bad omen. This speculation is worthy of it's own topic entirely though so I will stop now.. Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 07:09 pm by OldeCrow |
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hucky 3T WIS
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Anybody got the correct time |
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