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D 3T WIS
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HELP, I AM CONFUSED! ETA SAY NAH TO SELLING MOVEMENTS, OKEY, SELITA STEPS UP AND IS BOUGHT OUT. SOME SAY< (FROM THIS FORUM) THAT CLONE COMPANIES WILL STEP UP NOW. I HAVE NOT SEEN A CLONE COMPANY PRODUCE AN AUTOMATIC CHRONOGRAGH, I HAVE SEEN MULTI FUNCTIONS, NOT TRUE CHRONOGRAGHS. SELITA WAS DEVELOPING THE SW500, (I BELIEVE THIS WAS A CHRONO MOVEMENT, NOT SURE), WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THAT NOW. DOES THIS REALLY MEAN THAT ALL OF US WILL HAVE TO PUT UP WITH A QUARTS CHRONO! MAY IT NEVER BE! |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS 
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I have a feeling the bark is louder than the bite with this. Yes things are tight but both China and Russia are working on and building Chrono movements and others just may step up too. To much demand for no one to do so. |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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eta and selitta will still be producing movements so what's the crisis?:D they are just booked through 2009 which means they sold out and are trying to keep up with the demand for 2010...I don't foresee any less watches being produced just higher prices to correspond with the demand of the movementswatch2.gif |
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D 3T WIS
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WILL ETA BE PRODUCING MOVEMENTS FOR SALE? OR IS THIS FOR THE SWATCH COMPANIES ONLY? |
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e.avery 3T WIS 
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All I can say is and this is going to sound smart but it is not just reality, if you fill out the forms, write the check, and wait and see. It is the only advice I can give, way to many variables looking out to 2010. The industry keeps it's secrets close and only lets them out if it serves a purpose. ETA and Sellita Watch Co. are doing the best they can. |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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One of the things that happened here besides all the buy outs is no one expected the demand to be quite this great. Interest in Mechanical hand wind and automatics is the highest it has ever been. |
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D 3T WIS
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I AGREE, THESE MOVEMENTS HAVE DONE A TOTAL TURN AROUND. I WONDER WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO BRING THIS ON? |
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KenC Admin 
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D wrote: HELP, I AM CONFUSED! ETA SAY NAH TO SELLING MOVEMENTS, OKEY, SELITA STEPS UP AND IS BOUGHT OUT. SOME SAY< (FROM THIS FORUM) THAT CLONE COMPANIES WILL STEP UP NOW. I HAVE NOT SEEN A CLONE COMPANY PRODUCE AN AUTOMATIC CHRONOGRAGH, I HAVE SEEN MULTI FUNCTIONS, NOT TRUE CHRONOGRAGHS. SELITA WAS DEVELOPING THE SW500, (I BELIEVE THIS WAS A CHRONO MOVEMENT, NOT SURE), WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THAT NOW. DOES THIS REALLY MEAN THAT ALL OF US WILL HAVE TO PUT UP WITH A QUARTS CHRONO! MAY IT NEVER BE! Seagull makes a relatively good mechanical/automatic chronograph as doe Poljot. |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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D wrote: I AGREE, THESE MOVEMENTS HAVE DONE A TOTAL TURN AROUND. I WONDER WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO BRING THIS ON? One factor is word of mouth so to speak. Forums like this one and many others has been big in bringing more attention to them as well as the TV shopping networks and Magazine adds. And this list goes on. The media age can make or break most anything. |
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D 3T WIS
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I WILL CHECK THOSE OUT. THANK YOU. I WONDER ALSO IF THE ETA MOVEMENT WATCHES WILL INCREASE IN VALUE BECAUSE THE SHORTAGE, I MEAN THE ONE'S THAT ARE ON PEOPLES WRISTS. |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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D wrote: I WILL CHECK THOSE OUT. THANK YOU. Will depend on the brand, demand and popularity of the watch not just the movement. |
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Nabco 3T WIS 
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I also wonder how much of this is real and how much of this is "blowing smoke up" you know where. I find it very hard to believe that any manufacturing company, I don't care what it is can say they make are sold out for multiple years. We keep hearing this but we still see start up watch companies being able to get movements. I'm not saying the prices on the movements aren't going up, because they are. I just think that the demand for mechanical watches as stated in other posts on this thread has driven the price up. From what I've been told movements are available they are just expensive and unless you want to raise the price on the finished product there's no margin in making the watches. That said, it's not a bad thing, If I was running Swatch I would do exactly the same thing...if demand went up in my business I would raise the hell out of the prices too, that's just good business. Just my 2 cents...... |
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sandoz 3T WIS
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Nabco wrote: ...From what I've been told movements are available they are just expensive and unless you want to raise the price on the finished product there's no margin in making the watches....Checked Otto Frei. Used to see 2824s for sale around $90. Now, 2824s not listed at all. Same seems to be true for eta 2892s. |
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D 3T WIS
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I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR SEAGULL WATCHES ONLINE, I HAVE FOUND MORE SEAGULL CRAP THAN I AM WILLING TO ADMIT, BUT VARY FEW MECHANICAL WATCHES. I HAVE FOUND MULTI FUNCTIONS ON E-BAY, NOT WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR. DOES ANY ONE KNOW A DEALER OR A WEB SITE THAT SELLS THE MECHANICAL CHRONOGRAPHS? I DID FIND A PIECE OF A THREAD FROM LAST YEAR THAT SOMEONE HAD PUT IN A PICTURE OF THREE OF THESE WATCHES, DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY FEED BACK ON THEM? |
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Upside 3T WIS 
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Nabco wrote:
Here's another .03 for a nickel. Just because you can raise the price doesn't mean you should. I agree that running a business involves raising prices but if you start gouging people then that's piracy. People get bitter and go elsewhere. The watch industry is full of tricks to raise prices already, LEs are a great example. I also find it hard to believe that someone can be out of stock for years-THAT is not good business. These companies have been tooled up for years to manufacture these items and I have to believe that it's down to a science for them. At this point I have to question the validity to the reasons as to why some prices are going up. At least Rolex was upfront about it they basically said-we're snobs and we're not going to stop being snobs-well, I'm sure they were more eloquent than that. There's my .03 |
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Nabco 3T WIS
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Upside wrote: Nabco wrote: |
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deidler 3T WIS
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I don't think you can really compare to gas. But, ok. Gas is completely manipulated and really has very little to do with supply and demand. Yes, I know they tell you it does. How much is gas in China? Cheap? Remember those pics of streets full of bikes? Now what do you see cluttering the streets of China? There is no shortage. Unless you have pulled up to a pump and have seen a sorry we are empty sign. Nobody- nobody- nobody knows how much crude there is. There is no shortage of plastic goods hitting the shelves. Demand in this country is down, reserves are full, and yet gas prices still rise. They manipulate supply as well as demand. It is a joke. Companies who have supply problems don't tend to have record profits year after year. When the Florida citrus industry gets hhit by something that reduces supply and prices skyrocket, do they make record profits? Demand is still there. They just don't make the profits. What is the price a diesel? Why? Diesel is a byproduct. It is what is left over. Sludge. Why is it so much these days? Rant over. Sorry. The lies by these companies bother me. I'm a capitalist so I don't care if they are making money. I will find a way to join them. I just hate the lies that they spew. As far as movements are concerned. I guess companies don't want to invest in the infrastructure to build these things. Probably because the popularity could be over tomorrow. If they keep inflating the prices we will see new companies. Maybe a 3t factory in the US would be nice. Enough profit and there will be new companies. The question will be if they get gobbled up. I can't imagine it is too difficult to reverse engineer a movement. I'm not really certain as to why we don't see more companies besides some Chinese and Russian. The only guess I can come up with. There really isn't the demand. |
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KenC Admin
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deidler wrote: I don't think you can really compare to gas. But, ok. Gas is completely manipulated and really has very little to do with supply and demand. Yes, I know they tell you it does. How much is gas in China? Cheap? Remember those pics of streets full of bikes? Now what do you see cluttering the streets of China? There is no shortage. Unless you have pulled up to a pump and have seen a sorry we are empty sign. Nobody- nobody- nobody knows how much crude there is. There is no shortage of plastic goods hitting the shelves. Demand in this country is down, reserves are full, and yet gas prices still rise. They manipulate supply as well as demand. It is a joke. Companies who have supply problems don't tend to have record profits year after year. When the Florida citrus industry gets hhit by something that reduces supply and prices skyrocket, do they make record profits? Demand is still there. They just don't make the profits. What is the price a diesel? Why? Diesel is a byproduct. It is what is left over. Sludge. Why is it so much these days? Rant over. Sorry. The lies by these companies bother me. I'm a capitalist so I don't care if they are making money. I will find a way to join them. I just hate the lies that they spew. Well, the supply of oil is plentiful, but the problem is, politicians won't let us get to that supply. As the price goes up, the supply becomes more plentiful as the "bigger" dollar make it economically feasible to use that source. Gasoline and oil products are not as nearly available as they should be, once again, because of the politicians. Oil companies are so restricted by government regulation that it is economically unfeasible to build new refineries to handle the production of oil products needed. For example, the US companies can't drill in the Gulf of Mexico because the environmental freaks have made it impossible...yet Cuba and Mexico can drill in those very same spots and nothing can be done about it. Which countries and whose technology do you think we lessen the chance of environmental damage? I am so tired of hearing about price gouging an excess profits, it's ridiculous. The average net profit to the "BIG OIL" company is $0.14 per gallon. They must discover it, pump it, transport it, refine it distribute it and pump it. The federal Gov't alone, taxes gasoline at $0.187 per gallon and they do absolutely nothing for it except cash the checks the oil companies send them...the states take another $0.10 to $0.45 per gallon in taxes...again, for doing absolutely nothing...and then they all tend to squander it buying votes. As to corporate taxes...corporations don't pay taxes...they merely collect them as a pass through cost to the consumer...WE pay corporate taxes in the price WE are charged for a product and/or service. Basic common sense! End of rant! Back on topic...I don't like Sellita movements either!:P |
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D 3T WIS
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WOW! THAT ALL WENT IN A DIRECTION THAT I WASN'T PREPAIRED FOR! I REALLY DON'T MIND THE FACT THAT MOST OF MY WATCHES ARE SELITA'S, MY CONCERN IS THAT LOW TO MID RANGE AUTOMATICS WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST. I AM LOOKING AROUND AT RUSSIAN, JAPAN, CHINA ITIALIN ETC MOVEMENTS AND REALLY HAVE NOT FOUND A CHRONO THAT I HAVE HAD TO TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT. ALSO IN THIS SEARCH I HAVE FOUND SOME WITH A ETA 7750 MOVEMENTS UNDER $500. SO THE WHOLE MOVEMENT SHORTAGE, PRICES ALL SEEM A LITTLE BIT OFF THE WALL. HAS ANY ONE SEEN THE TAIL WAGS THE DOG? |
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KenC Admin
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D wrote: WOW! THAT ALL WENT IN A DIRECTION THAT I WASN'T PREPAIRED FOR! Sorry D...as in all good discussions...sometimes we digress. You might try pm'ing 3T member pacifichrono (Tom Johnson) for info on the SeaGull Chrono...I know he has one and is quite happy with it. |
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D 3T WIS
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ALL IS GOOD! AFTER A FEW DAYS TO PONDER WHAT WAS DISCUSSED, IT SORTA MATCHES. I MEAN, WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE OIL COMPANIES AND IN TURN WE ARE ALSO AT THE MERCY OF THE MOVEMENT MAKERS. SO THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE CAPITALIZE ON THEM? THEY SEEM TO BE TAKING THE UPPER HAND, HOW DO WE WIN? |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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D wrote: ALL IS GOOD! AFTER A FEW DAYS TO PONDER WHAT WAS DISCUSSED, IT SORTA MATCHES. I MEAN, WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE OIL COMPANIES AND IN TURN WE ARE ALSO AT THE MERCY OF THE MOVEMENT MAKERS. Win? You don't you just do your best to have as much fun as you can along the way. ;) |
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KenC Admin
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Skipdawg wrote: D wrote:ALL IS GOOD! AFTER A FEW DAYS TO PONDER WHAT WAS DISCUSSED, IT SORTA MATCHES. I MEAN, WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE OIL COMPANIES AND IN TURN WE ARE ALSO AT THE MERCY OF THE MOVEMENT MAKERS. DITTO, DAWG.....ya win some and ya lose some...but ya gotta have fun along the way. Lose your sense of humor and you've lost everything! |
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D 3T WIS
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OVER THE WEEK END I WAS WATCHING THE WATCH SHOW, (SAY THAT THREE TIMES FAST), THEY WERE SHOWING A SWISS LEGEND WITH A CL 888 MOVEMENT. DOES ANY BODY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS MOVEMENT? HISTORY, BRANDS THAT USE IT? THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. |
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slinky469 3T WIS 
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Hey D, this might help a little. Zodiac used it. http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=11736&forum_id=1 Oh yea the The watch show is on JTV..   from what I hear they are good movements, i was looking at the same watch but the design of the watch just didnt do it for me. Last edited on Tue May 13th, 2008 11:06 am by slinky469 |
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D 3T WIS
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I'M WITH YOU, THE LOOK OF THE WATCH DIDN'T DO MUCH FOR ME. IT IS MORE THE MOVEMENT, I THINK WE WILL SEE A BUNCH MORE COMPANIES POP UP THAT SAY THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR EVER AND WE HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THEM. IT MAKES ME WONDER IF THE BIZ PLAN THAT ETA PUT TOGETHER WILL BACK FIRE OR MAKE THEM MILLIONS. |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS 
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The CL 888 is a sea-gull st-16 st-17?? that flies over switzerland or germany on its' way to the fossil warehouse or Invicta warehouse. It's a robust little bugger you will also find it in lots of the Alpha watches and many canal st. replicas! |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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the Claro-Semang 888 is manufactured by George J.VonBurg but is based on a Seagull movement from what I was told but considered and is Swiss Made by all federation guidelineshand6.gif |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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oagaspar wrote: the Claro-Semang 888 is manufactured by George J.VonBurg but is based on a Seagull movement from what I was told but considered and is Swiss Made by all federation guidelineshand6.gif This should help in part with this. Take a very close look at the movement guys. :) http://jitteryjim.com/?p=414 And some extra info for ya. :cool: http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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oagaspar wrote: the Claro-Semang 888 is manufactured by George J.VonBurg but is based on a Seagull movement from what I was told but considered and is Swiss Made by all federation guidelineshand6.gif Ouch.... further proof that the Swiss are lowering their standards even while claiming to be raising them... if it wasnt' so sad it would be funny! |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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OldeCrow wrote: oagaspar wrote:the Claro-Semang 888 is manufactured by George J.VonBurg but is based on a Seagull movement from what I was told but considered and is Swiss Made by all federation guidelineshand6.gif From I hear and understand the new standards that have been talked about for a few years is still being debated and nothing new has been put into place yet. But if the stricker 80% dose go into place "Swiss Made" will mean allot more for sure. :) |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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There is a certain symmetry to it though, these phony swiss brands are buying up the older design slow beat movements and calling them swiss meanwhile sea-gull is producing a remarkable 2892 copy and it won't be long before the 2824 copy is readily available for export too. Not to mention someone in China is producing a darned nice copy if the 7750 too! The day is rapidly approaching when the Swiss will be selling cheap Chinese movements and the Chinese will be selling great Swiss movments!  |
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D 3T WIS
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TO CALL IT SWISS IS 80% OF THE MOVEMENT OR 80% OF THE COST OF THE MOVEMENT? IF IT IS 80% OF THE COST OF THE MOVEMENT, CAN'T THAT BE DONE WITH DECORATING THE ROTOR ALONE? |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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D wrote: TO CALL IT SWISS IS 80% OF THE MOVEMENT OR 80% OF THE COST OF THE MOVEMENT? IF IT IS 80% OF THE COST OF THE MOVEMENT, CAN'T THAT BE DONE WITH DECORATING THE ROTOR ALONE? See my 2ed link in my above post. All is covered there. As it is now. ;) |
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D 3T WIS
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THANK YOU FOR THE LINKS. SORRY IF IT FELLS LIKE I AM DRUMMING FOR ANSWERS, IT FELLS THAT WAY BECAUSE I AM! SOME WHAT NEW TO WATCHES I HAVE ANEED TO KNOW. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP! |
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