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Automatic watch movements

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Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 07:07 pm

Dragnattck
3T WIS

Joined:	Thu Jan 8th, 2009
Location:	Riverside, California USA
Posts:	404
Status:	Offline

I am still very much a novice to the watch world but I have seen alot of different automatci movements. Is there a place i can go to find a list preferable ranked in order of automatic movements? like which ETA movement is best how does an SW200 compare to an ETA class movement.. etc..

Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 07:13 pm

Skipdawg
3T WIS

Joined:	Thu Mar 29th, 2007
Location:	Washington USA
Posts:	14965
Status:	Offline

Dragnattck wrote: I am still very much a novice to the watch world but I have seen alot of different automatci movements. Is there a place i can go to find a list preferable ranked in order of automatic movements? like which ETA movement is best how does an SW200 compare to an ETA class movement.. etc..

Well for starters use the forums search feature. There has been quite a bit of info posted here at 3T. ;)

Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 08:05 pm

Johnny P
Advisor

Joined:	Thu Nov 3rd, 2005
Location:	USA
Posts:	1783
Status:	Offline

I wrote this a while back link below, brought it here again

Source: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=55054&page=2

Here is all the info you need, if you don't understand it I can't help you

Doxa (chronometer) grade COSC, Look at the balance wheel Spoke it flares, with incabloc shock

(Top) grade 2824-2 movement not certified, same configuration as above.

Doxa Mil Ed, (Elabore) grade 2824-2, with incabloc, notice wheel spokes are straight.

(Standard) grade 2824-2, balance wheel spokes are striaght, but with novadiac (etachoc system cheap crap.

jmo

Now look at eta chart for what type of material is use on balance wheel section below for different grade of movement, and shock system

All this info is on the internet, must do your own homework, but I'm being a nice guy today

Glucydur

Glucydur is a multi-metallic alloy, used in the watch industry for building different parts of the mechanism.

Glucydur is an alloy of beryllium, copper and iron. Due to such properties as hardness, resistance to deformation, damage or magnetic fields and its stability this alloy is perfect for making balance wheels for watches' mechanisms. Glucydur is also resistant to corrosion; it is rather inert chemically. Due to these qualities it is extensively used in producing antimagnetic watches.

Glucydur was developed about the same time with another non-magnetic material - Nivarox.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucydur"

Nivarox

Nivarox (Nicht Variable Oxydfest - Not Variable Resistant to Oxidation) is a metallic alloy, which is used mainly in the watch industry. This alloy composed of iron, 40 % nickel, chromium, titanium and beryllium has properties, which are very useful in building the balances. The hairsprings made of this alloy will not wear out; they are almost non-magnetic, anti-rust and they have a very low coefficient of thermal expansion.

Nivarox stabilizes the movement of the watch and makes it more resistible to changing of the temperature. This alloy made obsolete the expensive and sophisticated compensation balance. Nivarox escape wheels are being used on different levels of production by most watchmakers worldwide.

Nivarox is produced exclusively by a single Swiss manufacturer - Nivarox-FAR.

Source:

http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

Source:

http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

Source:

http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

What is Swiss made

http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php

Chronometer standard

http://www.cosc.ch/faq.php?lang=en

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

Background

Founded in its current structure in 1973, the COSC ("Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres") is the Swiss Official Chronometer Testing Institute. It is a not-for-profit association. The COSC was founded by five watchmaking states ("cantons") of Switzerland: Bern, Geneva, Neuchâtel, Solothurn and Vaud, together with the FH, Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry. It encompasses the laboratories/observatories that had been created independently of each other from the late 19th century onward.
Nowadays, three laboratories do the actual testing of the movements submitted by individual watch manufacturers to be granted the official chronometer status, located in Biel/Bienne, Geneva & Le Locle.

Standards and Methods

Each officially certified COSC chronometer is unique, and identified by a serial number engraved on its movement and a certification number given by the COSC.
Testing criteria is based on ISO 3159 which provides the definition of a wrist-chronometer with spring balance oscillator. Only movements which meet the precision criteria established under ISO 3159 are granted an official chronometer certificate.
Each movement is individually tested for fifteen days, in five positions, at three different temperatures. Based on these measurements, seven eliminatory criteria are calculated, the minima of which must all be met e.g. for movements of a diameter over 20 mm, indicated in seconds/day:

Average daily rate: -4/+6
Mean variation in rates: 2
Greatest variation in rates: 5
Difference between rates in H & V positions: -6/+8
Largest variation in rates: 10
Thermal variation: ± 0.6
Rate resumption: ± 5

COSC have developed their own standard for testing quartz chronometers with eight eliminatory criteria:

Average daily rate at 23 °C: ± 0.07
Rate at 8 °C: ± 0.2
Rate at 38 °C: ± 0.2
Rate stability: 0.05
Dynamic rate: ± 0.05
Temporary effect of mechanical shocks: ± 0.05
Residual effect of mechanical shocks: ± 0.05, 200 shocks equivalent to 100 G (981 m/s²)
Rate resumption: ± 0.05

Measurements are based on a time base established by two independent atomic clocks synchronised on GPS time.
Over 1 million official chronometer certificates are delivered each year, representing only 3% of the Swiss watch production, a proportion that underscores the exceptional nature of a chronometer. To earn chronometer certification, a movement must not only be made from the highest quality components, but also be the object of special care on part of the finest watchmakers and timers during assembly.
Sources: courtesy of "Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres", CH-2301 La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland, email: info@cosc.ch

:)

Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 08:21 pm

Johnny P
Advisor

Joined:	Thu Nov 3rd, 2005
Location:	USA
Posts:	1783
Status:	Offline

What are Sapphire Crystals?

http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=6498&forum_id=1

Helium release valve (HRV) do you really need one?

http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=6464&forum_id=1

ETA SWISSL@B Training Centre

2892 Automatic

7750 Chronograph

6497 Manual

ETA 251.471 http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/251471/251471.html

ETA 205.911 http://www.eta.ch/swisslab

Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 09:33 pm

zippofan
3T WIS

Joined:	Tue Feb 6th, 2007
Location:	Scranton, Pennsylvania USA
Posts:	2408
Status:	Offline

I wondered what the difference was between the Kif system and the others. Great post, thank you! hand6.gifhand6.gifhand6.gif

Cheers,
Griff

Posted: Sat Jan 24th, 2009 12:22 am

oagaspar
Site Founder

Joined:	Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location:	Akron, USA
Posts:	28506
Status:	Online

as always awesome info Johnny!

Posted: Sat Jan 24th, 2009 12:39 pm

Dragnattck
3T WIS

Joined:	Thu Jan 8th, 2009
Location:	Riverside, California USA
Posts:	404
Status:	Offline

thanks for all the great info

Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 07:39 am

romeo-1
3T WIS

Joined:	Tue Mar 17th, 2009
Location:	Nova Scotia Canada
Posts:	270
Status:	Offline

Great info in this thread! Thanks for that!

Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 06:01 pm

KarlXII
3T WIS

Joined:	Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location:	Sweden
Posts:	18
Status:	Offline

I really like this forum!
Tons of interesting info! hand6.gif

Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 03:17 am

timepieces4u
3T WIS

Joined:	Fri Sep 11th, 2009
Location:
Posts:	6
Status:	Offline

Wow!! Very detailed information

Johnny P wrote:
I wrote this a while back link below, brought it here again

Source: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=55054&page=2

Here is all the info you need, if you don't understand it I can't help you

Doxa (chronometer) grade COSC, Look at the balance wheel Spoke it flares, with incabloc shock

(Top) grade 2824-2 movement not certified, same configuration as above.

Doxa Mil Ed, (Elabore) grade 2824-2, with incabloc, notice wheel spokes are straight.

(Standard) grade 2824-2, balance wheel spokes are striaght, but with novadiac (etachoc system cheap crap.

jmo

Now look at eta chart for what type of material is use on balance wheel section below for different grade of movement, and shock system

All this info is on the internet, must do your own homework, but I'm being a nice guy today

Glucydur

Glucydur is a multi-metallic alloy, used in the watch industry for building different parts of the mechanism.

Glucydur is an alloy of beryllium, copper and iron. Due to such properties as hardness, resistance to deformation, damage or magnetic fields and its stability this alloy is perfect for making balance wheels for watches' mechanisms. Glucydur is also resistant to corrosion; it is rather inert chemically. Due to these qualities it is extensively used in producing antimagnetic watches.

Glucydur was developed about the same time with another non-magnetic material - Nivarox.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucydur"

Nivarox

Nivarox (Nicht Variable Oxydfest - Not Variable Resistant to Oxidation) is a metallic alloy, which is used mainly in the watch industry. This alloy composed of iron, 40 % nickel, chromium, titanium and beryllium has properties, which are very useful in building the balances. The hairsprings made of this alloy will not wear out; they are almost non-magnetic, anti-rust and they have a very low coefficient of thermal expansion.

Nivarox stabilizes the movement of the watch and makes it more resistible to changing of the temperature. This alloy made obsolete the expensive and sophisticated compensation balance. Nivarox escape wheels are being used on different levels of production by most watchmakers worldwide.

Nivarox is produced exclusively by a single Swiss manufacturer - Nivarox-FAR.

Source:

http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

Source:

http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

Source:

http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en.html

What is Swiss made

http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php

Chronometer standard

http://www.cosc.ch/faq.php?lang=en

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

Background

Founded in its current structure in 1973, the COSC ("Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres") is the Swiss Official Chronometer Testing Institute. It is a not-for-profit association. The COSC was founded by five watchmaking states ("cantons") of Switzerland: Bern, Geneva, Neuchâtel, Solothurn and Vaud, together with the FH, Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry. It encompasses the laboratories/observatories that had been created independently of each other from the late 19th century onward.
Nowadays, three laboratories do the actual testing of the movements submitted by individual watch manufacturers to be granted the official chronometer status, located in Biel/Bienne, Geneva & Le Locle.

Standards and Methods

Each officially certified COSC chronometer is unique, and identified by a serial number engraved on its movement and a certification number given by the COSC.
Testing criteria is based on ISO 3159 which provides the definition of a wrist-chronometer with spring balance oscillator. Only movements which meet the precision criteria established under ISO 3159 are granted an official chronometer certificate.
Each movement is individually tested for fifteen days, in five positions, at three different temperatures. Based on these measurements, seven eliminatory criteria are calculated, the minima of which must all be met e.g. for movements of a diameter over 20 mm, indicated in seconds/day:

Average daily rate: -4/+6
Mean variation in rates: 2
Greatest variation in rates: 5
Difference between rates in H & V positions: -6/+8
Largest variation in rates: 10
Thermal variation: ± 0.6
Rate resumption: ± 5

COSC have developed their own standard for testing quartz chronometers with eight eliminatory criteria:

Average daily rate at 23 °C: ± 0.07
Rate at 8 °C: ± 0.2
Rate at 38 °C: ± 0.2
Rate stability: 0.05
Dynamic rate: ± 0.05
Temporary effect of mechanical shocks: ± 0.05
Residual effect of mechanical shocks: ± 0.05, 200 shocks equivalent to 100 G (981 m/s²)
Rate resumption: ± 0.05

Measurements are based on a time base established by two independent atomic clocks synchronised on GPS time.
Over 1 million official chronometer certificates are delivered each year, representing only 3% of the Swiss watch production, a proportion that underscores the exceptional nature of a chronometer. To earn chronometer certification, a movement must not only be made from the highest quality components, but also be the object of special care on part of the finest watchmakers and timers during assembly.
Sources: courtesy of "Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres", CH-2301 La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland, email: info@cosc.ch

:)

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