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ndburley 3T WIS 
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http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/Watches-Clocks-And/Swiss-Watchesoverpriced/2000083967 I saw this post and thought I would share...My fav watch I have is a Steinhart......anyway it is an interesting read. Neo |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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Extremely funny to try to compare a Steinhart with a Patek Philippe ...The guy didn't find any other competitor to Steinhart? Also: A Steinhart worth half price after 10mnt you bought it? Is this "Gregory" taking his nose out of his top range watches? I never saw that even in auctions on the net. "Gregory" forgot also that it's possible to find an inhouse before to come to the top range and it's very high prices... Take a Nomos for exemple. He also forgot that watches with cases made of massive gold with very low production are offcourse more likely going up in value: There's the "collector factor" and also just look how the gold value been raising the past decade. Do like me and look on the net, there's some used top-ranged watch movements(Audemars,Lecoultre,Vacheron...) on selling and the prices is affordable for many. The thing is that most of those mvts are tiny and don't attract people who want a bigger watch. Personnaly ,I don't want a watch that's so little that it looks like a woman's watch and so flat that I have to blow my wrist's hair out of the dial when I want to read the time... Seriously: Precision and durability in a movement is not automaticaly comming from the highest ranged trades. Take a 6497 unitas for exemple: It will outlast your life time... For the precision, a proven 2992-2 COSC makes it as well. Maybe this earlyer link from Oscar should help to find out about the precision and the mass-production factor within an affordable price.... http://www.timezone.com/library/wbore/wbore631733384647656250 Also, from my last reading in a very known watch magazine, an inhouse Piaget(Polo 45 model caliber 800P) had a "minus" because the precision wasn't so good compare to the price: + 5 seconds/day. So let's not "peess" on the ETA mvts please mister "Gregory"... Thanks for the link Neo! |
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Birddogone 3T WIS 
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Hey Neo, I'm worn out after read'n that! hammer.gif I've come to believe the old saying "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" If a watch speaks to you, that's all that matters. For me, I've lost most my desire to buy the big name brands due to the micro watch manufactures. I've owned Breitlings, Omegas, Heuers, Tag Heuers, Rolex, etc etc....the price and quality of these small companies is unbelievable!! I'm from the town that builds the H&B bats and golf clubs and was told once by a employee "it cost about $3.00 to built a $100.00 golf club the rest is advertising" Who knows? Only you, Rod |
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mcwright Admin 
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The cost of manufacturing that golf club probably is for materials and maybe labor. But, I doubt it includes all of the costs involved. Advertising is a part as is employee health insurance and a bunch of other expenses. |
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aujang 3T WIS 
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Pricing is a matter of demand and supply. Value is in the eye of the purchaser. |
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murphy j 3T WIS 
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aujang wrote: Value is in the eye of the purchaser. This is the most true statement that could be made. I don't buy a watch because it's going to rise in value. I buy it because I like it. The point I think Gregory was trying to make is that when you compare some of the upper scale in-house movements finishing/manufacturing methods to the mass production and different levels of finishing offered on ETA movements, then maybe to some people certain Swiss brands are overpriced and not on the same level as brands that have a lot more hands on to their production. It's like comparing a Chevy to a Ferrari. The Ferrari is damn expensive and requires a specialist in Ferrari to maintain. Take a Chevy 350 to any respectable mechanic and they can fix what is wrong. To me the ETA 2824 is the Chevy 350 of the watch world. It can be as plain or as hopped up as you want it to be. |
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aujang 3T WIS
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I absolutely agree with you. Even I think my Pam is stupidly overpriced. To follow your analogy its like having a Maserati with a Fiat engine But I still love it. With regard to the ETA versus inhouse movements question, the move towards manufacture movements is a relatively recent phenomenon, driven in large part by the Swatch Group's decision to stop selling ETA ébauches to companies outside of the Swatch family. The scramble to become manufactures by various watch companies had additional benefits besides vertical integration - it gave them cachet. But it wasn't all that long ago that watches from the Holy Trinity of Swiss watchmaking (PP, AP, and VC) used movements sourced from JLC and others. Granted, a JLC-sourced movement is not the same as an ETA. If the ETA is a Chevy 350 what would that make a JLC? I think what has changed is that consumers have now have different expectations. The type of movement in a watch is now more heavily factored into the perceived value of the watch. |
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murphy j 3T WIS
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aujang wrote: If the ETA is a Chevy 350 what would that make a JLC? Mercedes or BMW maybe?  |
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aujang 3T WIS
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murphy j wrote: aujang wrote:If the ETA is a Chevy 350 what would that make a JLC?  |
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ndburley 3T WIS
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I love the responses here, very interesting views on the subject. Thanks for sharing!!  |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Neo, there's no doubt about that many of us would be happy with a refined inhouse pilot from IWC but the price is another story... You can allways buy a "cheaper" IWC model containing an ETA movement who's refinished and ameliorated with 3 rubies...Note: I saw recently a brand new movement 2892-2 modified by IWC selling for around 300 buks on the net... So, yes, those models containing those movements or any 7750 are in my opinion overpriced. Anyway, on my side, I'm very glad about what I had for the price with my Steinhart "vintage" pilot. The finish is great and even the inside have nothing to spit venom about: It's a very good pilot who's strongly made with a very correct and proven 2824-2. I will never compare this with any inhouse pilot but the point is that if brands like Steinhart didn't exist, we, peolpe who don't bade in money, would ask for it.   |
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ndburley 3T WIS
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I was not worried about my Steinhart as I love it to peices. Gregory was coming across a little harsh in his views and didnt think the comparrision was fair. I love my collection for what they are as it will be only me wearing them. I would buy another Stienhart any day of the week if I could afford to keep doing so. As for people who Bathe in money...do they not know water is better to clean yourself in? dancing.gif |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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ndburley wrote:I was not worried about my Steinhart as I love it to peices. Amigo: I smoked money once. Was on a hard party and without saying a word been purely rolling a 100 bill and lighten it: The people at the party was stunned. I took a short drag, blowed a light smoke in the air and stoped it burning... All in all, I smoked the edge: The bill was still good and I changed it later. I tell you what: Money is nothing, fun is everything  |
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aujang 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wro
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ndburley 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wrote: ndburley wrote: I burned my eyebrows off on BBQ because in my wasted state I thought it needed more lighter fuel!!  |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS 
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Haven't read the link of Gregory yet as I'm trapped by crumby meetings here at the office but I like the veiws raised by all the 3T WIS. On the PP previously using a JLC movement....I don't seem to recall in all my research that PP once or ever used JLCs. The Stern family, presently in control of PP, certainly take pride in their heritage and history that their house is a true manufacture. I can't say the same about AP and VC since I don't follow those brands that much but I'm rather sure about PP .Are Swiss watches overpriced? Heck, you bet! But it's the thrill of the hunt for the next piece that keeps me going. For that matter, are the high-end Seikos (GS, Credor, etc) also over-priced. My answer is also YES! |
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Graham 3T WIS 
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bigrustypig wrote: Are Swiss watches overpriced? Heck, you bet!Truth is, when you're in this hobby boots 'n all, the last thing you want is for the prices of watches you already have, to come tumbling down.............. ........funny, isn't it?..................we all want bargains to buy and rare, exclusive pieces to sell........... |
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aujang 3T WIS
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bigrustypig wrote: Haven't read the link of Gregory yet as I'm trapped by crumby meetings here at the office but I like the veiws raised by all the 3T WIS. IIRC JLC supplied ebauches to Patek from the early 1900s to the 1930s. But as late as the 1970s both the original PP Nautilus and the AP Royal Oak used JLC-sourced movements. Only in the latest generation of the Royal Oak Offshore has AP moved to a manufacture movement over the JLC movement. To carry Murphy's car analogy even further I think of it as the equivalent of Pagani using a Mercedes AMG engine. |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS
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aujang wrote: bigrustypig wrote:Haven't read the link of Gregory yet as I'm trapped by crumby meetings here at the office but I like the veiws raised by all the 3T WIS. Hmmmm....thanks for the info, Aujang  |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS
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Graham wrote: bigrustypig wrote:Bullseye, Graham...... The worst nightmare is to end up holding a piece that's come down in price and then all of a sudden one ends up not wanting to wear it all. Fortunately, I've been lucky so farAre Swiss watches overpriced? Heck, you bet!Truth is, when you're in this hobby boots 'n all, the last thing you want is for the prices of watches you already have, to come tumbling down..............  |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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there are many categories of "Swiss Made" but only a few that can claim 100% Swiss Made and most WIS are not true collectors....the 100% SWiss was once true for most of the Swiss manufacturers pre-quartz revolution and exactly why Swatch Group and Hayek said "no more eta's/ebauches to 3rd parties...make your own movements" and slowly once again the real Swiss manufacturers are doing just that...making their own movements! ...Swiss Made has become a polluted mess of Chinese balderdash leaving most WIS not knowing the origin of their watches...and even worse we have watch producers who do not manufacture their own watches but use these HK companies to manufacture them being less than honest in letting WIS know this...they will tell you the C-3 comes from Switzerland(of course it does...that is where Tritec is located) and case parts from Germany,Poland and on and on...cut the BS....if the watch is made in HK then say so!...over 900 million watches were exported from China last year...what does that tell you? |
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KenC Admin 
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Birddogone wrote: Hey Neo, I'm worn out after read'n that! hammer.gif I've come to believe the old saying "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" If a watch speaks to you, that's all that matters. For me, I've lost most my desire to buy the big name brands due to the micro watch manufactures. I've owned Breitlings, Omegas, Heuers, Tag Heuers, Rolex, etc etc....the price and quality of these small companies is unbelievable!! Bada-BOOM...exactly...and $22 to build the most expensive graphite shafted driver...advertising and endorsements are the rest (plus 100% mark-up to the retailer and 100% mark-up to the buyer! |
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stew77 Admin 
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Graham wrote: bigrustypig wrote:Are Swiss watches overpriced? Heck, you bet!Truth is, when you're in this hobby boots 'n all, the last thing you want is for the prices of watches you already have, to come tumbling down.............. +1 or 2 on Jeff and Graham's comments here. Yes oh yes "we all want bargains to buy and rare, exclusive pieces to sell"... Certainly can relate to these comments and it is absolutely amazing how "certain" swiss brands (regardless of whether or not they are a true "in-house" movement designer/manufacturer) have just clicked with the wealthy watch buying public causing the price of entry to climb steadily higher with each new year. I admit...price and "perceived value" is definitely a personal thing for each WIS, and I do not mind at all buying a piece from a less popular or unknown brand if the perceived value is there for me...sometimes a watch "just clicks" for a WIS whether it is due to the rich history of the company, the excellence in design/manufacturing, or huge bang-for-the-buck that is being offered. And I certainly enjoy great pieces from all price points!!!...let's face it, there are some awesome pieces out there at inexpensive price points!!! It's fun to be a WIS! At the other end of the price spectrum...I would say the vast majority of WIS (collectors, not fashion devas), have at least a grail or two (or three or four) that is manufactured from a high end ($$$), legendary brand that is not acquired at this point in the journey...but oh, the thrill of the chase and the journey!!! Without those expensive, rare pieces dangling around out there...wouldn't the journey be a bit of a bore??? |
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murphy j 3T WIS
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The journey, thrill of the chase and that oh so un-quantifiable allure of timepieces. Isn't that what brings most WIS back time and time again? |
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ndburley 3T WIS
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murphy j wrote:The journey, thrill of the chase and that oh so un-quantifiable allure of timepieces. Isn't that what brings most WIS back time and time again? And the wild parties and all night drinking sessions...everyone knows girls cannot resist a good watch fanatic. |
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murphy j 3T WIS
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ndburley wrote: murphy j wrote: I wish. |
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