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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Vintage Rolex and a good reason why Rolex is what it is. |
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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Vintage Rolex and a good reason why Rolex is what it is. |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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came across this eBay addy on another forum and in lieu of Chris/OldeCrows vintage mod homage he made recently I thought to share....what a great story behind the watch and yet another vintage Rolex bringing in the big bucks! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120652944121 |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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The buyer should be a very rich, extreme fanatic of Rolex... Then to resell that: Good luck. There's so much things for this price...So much more advanced pieces of real art in the watch world. Not for me even I had the money. I give 1000buks for it  |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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agreed Will not something I would buy but to a Rolex aficionado this 5510 with red triangled/pip,big crown(no crown guards) no-date model only made in 1958 with the 1530 movement would be a rare find,especially in this condition...the story behind the watch may seem a bit fishy or maybe too perfect imo....where he bought the watch and was stationed in the Marshall Is. ...halfway between Hawaii and Austraila and if you wonder why this means something it may mean that this watch may not only be a rare 5510 but also that it may have been an Australian military issue,thus the red triangeld pip...not 100% sure on that but possible... I would like to think everything about this watch is true and both parties will be totally satisfied in the end... |
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Paxman 3T WIS 
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William, there is much to be learned from and appreciated in WIStory. There are of course many more advanced and complex modern movements and constructions but we all must appreciate the what has come before. After all some of the most complex and expensive timepieces of our era employ the toubillion which dates from 1795. For many the history and relative scarcity of a humble timepice make it most desirable. This sub appears to have a traceable provenance and limited availability. But like Oscar said everything seems too perfect. Having said that it would be sketchy at best to spend the now $63K on something from the Bay. Is this watch worth $63K? Well apparently so...  |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Marc, when I speak about better pieces, I don't specialy mean new pieces: 1958 is not so far ago, the 1530 movement isn't a huge achievement either. Here's one for under 3000buks: http://cgi.ebay.com/Genuine-Rolex-Explorer-1530-Movement-Dial-Vintage-RARE-/300457467794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f4a91f92#ht_500wt_1156 The guy even don't show the state of the movement: With all the diving he had with it so late in the watche's life, it may be all rusted... I observed a while ago an original Egiziano Panerai(one of 56 pieces ever made for the Egyptian navy in the 50's): Still here but way out of line http://cgi.ebay.com/Panerai-GPF-2-56-Vintage-Egyptian-Angelus-8-Day-/350329450974?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item51914331de#ht_1420wt_905 At list, the fact that only 50 pieces was ever made, can justify the very high price...? Even the movement is a basic(for this time) Angelus 240. When you are about to put 63000 in a watch: There's older, better mech, rarer pieces... That's what I mean. Last edited on Sun Dec 5th, 2010 03:10 pm by Hammerfjord |
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hucky 3T WIS 
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Id rather invest in Property! Better Return $$$ Cheers |
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murphy j 3T WIS 
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I think those old subs are really cool. The fact that there are so few of them contributes greatly to there value and, I believe, were a huge part of the success of Bill Yao's Kimgston. As to the sellers story, well..... for me it has a ring of truth about it. If it's not true then they should be a professional writer. I hope whoever the buyer is they get a great watch. |
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Nabco 3T WIS 
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Interesting, it looks like the last two bids were withdrawn,,,there were 39 bid, now 37 and the price went down  |
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mcwright Admin 
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$31,011 with about an hour to go. |
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Nabco 3T WIS
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Now it's down to 35 bidders...what's going on |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Nabco wrote: Now it's down to 35 bidders...what's going onread the 4 pages of questions and answers on this sale....it's pretty amazing how many WIS are watching this sale...not all are convinced however of his story and quite honestly I think my original suspicion is right on...no papers,no verification and the story is too perfect and just doesn't pan out as far as current age and his story timeline...could be an original Rolie and I surely hope whoever wins it will make sure to authenticate before paying...  |
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Nabco 3T WIS
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Yeah, a lot of interesting questions...$66,100 WOW |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Good luck to the 66100buks buyer: Honnestly, I would have buy this one and surely made a better investment... http://cgi.ebay.com/Louis-Moinet-Vertalis-Tourbillon-Wow-BNIB-/120653981903?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item1c1789a8cf#ht_544wt_1139 |
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Graham 3T WIS 
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WOW! that was an interesting read. I would like to think it was all legit, but time will surely tell. |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS 
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$66,000?..........hmmmm...with that money I can buy myself a President in platinum, a new Yachtie 2 and maybe have enough left over for a nice GMT in ceramic (if I can find one....ADs seem to be hoarding this one). Although I'm a Rolex fan, I'm not this crazy to spend that much for the watch featured. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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bigrustypig wrote:$66,000?..........hmmmm...with that money I can buy myself a President in platinum, a new Yachtie 2 and maybe have enough left over for a nice GMT in ceramic (if I can find one....ADs seem to be hoarding this one). Although I'm a Rolex fan, I'm not this crazy to spend that much for the watch featured. Honnestly Jeff, I don't understand this... I guess that some guys would just buy anything at any price just because it's writen Rolex on it. Piece of history there? Even not that: The story following the watch wasn't even something special... No war event, no real action, no shrapnel scratch, no known name, no military serail number proving anything, no special engraving... I know the value of history and love it. I have a real Viking axe-head in iron who's over 1000 years old and who seen battle during invasions: Used by balled men who made history. I didn't need to pay this nuts price for it. I saw superbe military Omegas from the WW2 who seen real action: Never reached this prices... An original German pilot watch from WW2 is even rarer and more historical, still not reaching those prices. Something's wrong there... |
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aujang 3T WIS 
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Hammerfjord wrote
It's a matter of demand and supply. The watch (if it turns out to be genuine) is "worth" whatever the market for vintage Rolex Subs will bear. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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aujang wrote:Hammerfjord wrote The problem is that the Rolex market is not the gold market... |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS
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Hard to say what happened for the watch to be hitting this price, Will and Aujang. It's almost incredulous and the market reacting at a sudden price drop shows this is an outlier deal. The only reason it could fetch this price is for sentimental reasons but then again, even sentimentality knows its bounds. Nice read though but the smart WIS will know exactly what brands and models to chase like crazy. |
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aujang 3T WIS
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bigrustypig wrote: Hard to say what happened for the watch to be hitting this price, Will and Aujang. It's almost incredulous and the market reacting at a sudden price drop shows this is an outlier deal. The only reason it could fetch this price is for sentimental reasons but then again, even sentimentality knows its bounds. IMO it is not sentimentality that was driving the price of the watch. The 5510 is arguably the rarest Sub, manufactured for a short time in 1958 only. IF the watch is genuine 66k would have been quite reasonable (for a given value of reasonableness ). |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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aujang wrote:bigrustypig wrote:]Hard to say what happened for the watch to be hitting this price, Will and Aujang. It's almost incredulous and the market reacting at a sudden price drop shows this is an outlier deal. The only reason it could fetch this price is for sentimental reasons but then again, even sentimentality knows its bounds. I guess that Rolex stoped to produce this model because it wasn't a hit.  Note that he paid 300buks in the 50's for it: Maybe 2000$ of today's value? What do you think? |
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aujang 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wrote: aujang wrote: I don't know why production of the 5510 was stopped only after a quarter. Rolex discontinued the original Milgauss because it wasn't a hit and look at the prices now |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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agreed Aujang...this 5510 Rolie is 1 of the rarest of all Rolex and whoever bought it obviously did not have to think about money....watches have become part of the new shelter to invest or to just keep money for those who have it,tangible assets are very common among the wealthy. ....dealers could have been after this watch knowing that a profit could be made either by turning it over to a customer iso 1 who doesn't mind paying a finders fee or to resell down the road...again whoever bought this watch was not hurting for money regardless of why they bought it imo. Even though any # of new or old Rolies could have been purchased for $60,000. none of them really have a set value such as this 5510.,even if the sale price of this one was too high...who really knows what the end result of this sale will even be?...hopefully whoever purchased it will let us or someone know if it was genuine.. ...this was the 1st time I have ever seen or heard of 1 FS in many years as a watch enthusiast and just recently this model has become the attention of many WIS in the form of homage and replica. ...agreed this watch was not for everyone but if it is genuine has set a price for others to follow...I'll be willing to say more will begin to show up... btw someone just put up a 5510 vintage dial for 4200.euro.. ...I would love to see this guys collection go up FS....amazing Rolies and history of his diving experience!. http://diving-watch.net/ |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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The craze-button been pressed and it will take a while before things smooth down Oscar...There's a trend for everything. Rolex experienced it as well as Aujang was telling. When it's gone, prices will fall then maybe go up again, who knows. I observed that 2 years ago, the Panerai homages fashion was wild and that auctions for movements like the Cortebert 616 was going easily to 1000 buks even when they was in low cosmetic shape. Now, it's another story... I know also for exemple that the diamond market has allways been manipulated to keep the high prices: If all South African stocks would have been putted on the exchange, many people would have lost huge amount of money (The info comes from a friend who worked in diamond mines down there...He saw amazing stocks sleeping...) Maybe Rolex has a bunch of NOS 5510 sleeping in a safe and will let them there to hold the prestige up?  |
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Nabco 3T WIS
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It is like any collectible, regardless of the economy the good pieces that are sought after will ALWAYS retain their value and in most cases will go up, regardless if it is watches, art or coins. Up until about 10 years ago I was a pretty active coin dealer on the side participating in the largest coin shows in the country with a partner...i still stick my toe in once in awhile and even over the last 2 years in this crap economy the rare high end coins and even coins that may not be rare in mintage but rare in appearance have not only held their value but have gone up. Interesting thing about Will's comment that Rolex has NOS 5510 movements sitting in a safe somewhere...that happened in the coin world in the early 70's....The Carson City Morgan Silver dollars were always short in supply and demanded a high premium...in the early 70s the US Mint uncovered a stash of CC Dollars that had not been seen before, almost all in uncirculated condition, a few CC dollars that were considered VERY rare before the find like the 1184CC and 1885CC all of a sudden had 100's of 1000's of them hitting the market all nicely encapsulated the the US government in nice plastic holders....the value decreased on these coins by over 90% overnight. |
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aujang 3T WIS
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Nabco wrote: Interesting thing about Will's comment that Rolex has NOS 5510 movements sitting in a safe somewhere...that happened in the coin world in the early 70's....The Carson City Morgan Silver dollars were always short in supply and demanded a high premium...in the early 70s the US Mint uncovered a stash of CC Dollars that had not been seen before, almost all in uncirculated condition, a few CC dollars that were considered VERY rare before the find like the 1184CC and 1885CC all of a sudden had 100's of 1000's of them hitting the market all nicely encapsulated the the US government in nice plastic holders....the value decreased on these coins by over 90% overnight. The notion that Rolex is sitting on a stock of NOS 5510s presupposes that Rolex SA has any interest in, or clue about, its vintage watches. Alas Rolex is only interested in selling new watches and its callous disregard for its own history and patrimony is IMO a terrible shame. |
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aujang 3T WIS
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According to Hodinkee the final selling price was $66100 and he has pictures of the original owner wearing the 5510 over the last six decades. http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2010/12/6/interview-the-man-behind-the-most-talked-about-ebay-listing.html |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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The notion that Rolex is sitting on a stock of NOS 5510s presupposes that Rolex SA has any interest in, or clue about, its vintage watches. A agree...But you know, the supposition about the secret stock of 5510 was just a little dream of mine: Nothing else...To give an exemple of offer-demand possible manipulation. Alas Rolex is only interested in selling new watches and its callous disregard for its own history and patrimony is IMO a terrible shame. Rolex started in 1905: Many watch brands started before...Take Certina with 1888 as an exemple. Take also other brands higher ranked than Rolex who started maybe 200 years before... That's maybe why Rolex holded them 100 anniversary silent and also why they don't bother much about them history who's in fact a bit young for the status they achieved in popularity. In fact, if they was writing 1905 on them watches, it may have been a bad publicity return for them... Incredible: Superman may even had touch this 60000buks Rolex from the Bay...Thanks for the following up Aujang! big_eyes.gif |
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aujang 3T WIS
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It didn't occur to me that Rolex might not be interested in its history because it is such a (relatively) young manufacture. Still, they have made some very interesting watches, especially in the 1940s and 1950s and it really is a shame that they aren't interested in their patrimony. I am having my dad's 1960s Omega Chronostop basically rebuilt by Swatch for him. They are keeping the original tritium dial and case but basically everything else is going to be new. If Omega/Swatch can do it I really can't see why Rolex cannot, aside from them not wanting to. |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Rolex has recently stopped any restoration or repair work on vintage Rolies...moreso the ones that are bringing the big bucks due to insurance and any backlash over work performed... ...Rolex is very much interested in their heritage and although they do not have a museum they do have a "hall of fame" in their Geneve manufacture'...unfortunately it is not open to the public... ...just because Rolex is considered "young" compared to many of the older brands ie:Brequet and the such does not mean they did not pioneer the way to many of the innovations used by it's competition today...even those who have been around ions longer...they not only redesigned through their extensive research and development but created a dive watch that has been copied more than any other watch. ...their marketing and R&D have created not only a watch that lasts but has set a standard that makes Rolex a household name. ... WIS represented on the many forums are only a tiny percentage and something we sometimes forget compared to the huge buying public and owning a Rolex is the dream of many ...WIS or not. ...anyone who has walked into a Rolex AD and has experienced the thrill of buying a Rolex knows the feeling...I have to believe it is the same for a WIS or someone who knows nothing about watches...it's an experience you remember... |
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aujang 3T WIS
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I agree that Rolex has been innovative; their parachrom blue hairspring is a good example. But the Oyster has been Rolex's boon and bane. IMO they have over time sought to perfect the Oyster. Rolex used to make watches with triple date calendars with moonphases and they are stunning. I really wish they would do things like that again. But I guess there is something to be said to sticking to one's core competencies. As for the restoration/repair of vintages I'm not convinced it is merely an insurance/backlash issue. Other manufactures of older and more highly complicated pieces do not seem to have problems with restoring those pieces. It'll cost you of course. |
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Paxman 3T WIS
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oagaspar wrote:
Precisely. If you ain't done it, don't knock it. |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS
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Still, whatever it is, for $66,000, I'd plunk it down on any of the holy trinity.....Patek World Time, or AP Royal Oak Offshore T3 or any rare VC. |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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I'm not trying to justify the $66,000.spent on this particular watch as everyone has their own tastes,reasons and what they feel would round out a collection... ...like you Jeff if I had this kind of money to plop down on just a watch I would be looking at a Ulysses Nardin "Freak"...this is my dream watch...and I might have a enough left over for a lower end Patek... |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Paxman wrote:oagaspar wrote: The first and last time I walked into a Rolex AD, I looked at the subs behind glass and found them so little that I turned around without the lust to even try them on... Few months after, I was taking a plane to the job and the guy sitting by me had a Rolex sub: I didn't envy him in fact, as again, the watch looked little to me in every aspects... I have a Mil.sub homage I use only for the job because it's a strong cheapo who don't come in the way: The size help, it's just practical. I never feel for wearing it at home...Too small, too flat, not feeling like it dress me. Even I really like the look, I realise that it's not for me, so I don't know the thrill you speak about and will most likely never experience it or it would have allready happen... I could materialy buy one, but like many, I also think that the sub is overpriced, specialy when new. Then why not a DSSD? ...I like the size, I hate even more the price. |
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aujang 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wrote: I could materialy buy one, but like many, I also think that the sub is overpriced, specialy when new. +1 on the prices of new Subs hammer.gif I like the DSSD too but (aside from the price, which I hate too) Rolex @#$%ed it up with the tapering bracelet. You have a very unbalanced look with a massive watch head on what looks like a puny bracelet. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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aujang wrote:Hammerfjord wrote:I could materialy buy one, but like many, I also think that the sub is overpriced, specialy when new. I agree: I have a DSSD case from Helenarou...The bracelet is ridiculously stretching tiny to the clasp It's definitly not a balanced look |
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mcwright Admin
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$9.95 James Bond Rolex sells for $66,100 on eBay Rolex Sale Makes the Yahoo News: http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/477/995-james-bond-rolex-sells-for-66100-on-ebay/ |
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