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stew77 Admin 
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Well, I know we have a number of Doxa fans here at 3T...many of you I'm sure have already seen this reveal, but just in case you missed it Doxa has revealed the new Doxa 10th Anniversary Sub 4000T. My initial reaction: I like it alot!!!  ....Was not sure what I initially thought about the Power Reserve meter labeled 'Safe Dive' as it seems somewhat gimmicky, but the fact that this is using a Top Grade ETA-2897 made me forget about that. It looks like a Doxa, but as you look at the case detailing, some of the subtle design details/changes from classic Doxa's of old seen from different angles really come to life (and this is probably what I like most about the 4000T!!! ). I really love the old Doxa case, but also really like the new one! Doxa is saying that the dial diameter is larger relative to the case diameter when compared to the classic Doxa lineup. I really like the classic Doxa BOR bracelet on the current and older Doxa pieces, and this one is using a different style that doesn't scream vintage Doxa, but it is growing on me. This one will also be offered with two bezel choices, the more classic Doxa bezel you see here, or a Sapphire Bezel (which I've not yet seen), which should really change up the looks. Would I prefer to have drilled lugs?...probably...but overall, I very much like what I see. I'm very tempted by this one...very tempted...What do you guys think??? The specs according to Doxa: Diameter 47.00mm including crown protection Diameter excluding the crown protection is 44.00mm. Lug width 22.00mm. Lug to lug 48.00mm. Height 16.00mm. Bezel diameter 40.80mm. Crown diameter 6.50mm. Movement: ETA 2897 Top grade pics from Doxa, and the Doxa forum: pics deleted due to size,please resize to 800x600 Attachment: doxa4000T.jpg (Downloaded 130 times) |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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I was in fact looking at it today...I'm not so convinced in fact. The case is a bit too flat: The angle growing toward the bezel should be a bit harder in my meaning. This would be possible if the watch would be at list 2mm thicker. So the watch seems wide but a bit sitting like a suction cup on the wrist maybe: It needs more dimention on the case I think. But when I look the dimentions: The case is 44X16mm, my Certina DS3 is 44X15 but still looks different, more volcano shape. I think that's because the Doxa bezel is thicker or the case back too thick maybe and it eat the case thickness. After that: I don't like the bracelet at all. Too usual and looking a bit like a Rolex sub one... Well, I'm not in love. |
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watchdaddy1 3T WIS 
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I'M NOT FEELING THAT EITHERblah.gif |
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Johnny P Advisor 
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I was expecting something totally different especially around the crown area, but it just another Mr Potatoe head Doxa. Movement: ETA 2897 Top grade, I wonder where I heard that before, must see pictures to believe it. fart.gif  JMO |
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watchdaddy1 3T WIS
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& to add to ALL this was the hype, & the weeks to reveal it & they want you to preorder it w/o knowing what some of the final looks will be ie. hands.........Booo( from what I've been reading alot of WIS's r dissapointed immensly ), & I know you can't please every1, but the Safe Dive indicator cheapens the whole Doxa history.Im not feeling it |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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I like the eta 2897,case and bracelet look great to me...I also like the power reserve indicator but the "safe dive"on the dial has to go imo. ...personally I would have liked to have seen Doxa do a re-issue of one of their earlier models for their 10th anniversary... |
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Johnny P Advisor
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oagaspar wrote:I like the eta 2897,case and bracelet look great to me...I also like the power reserve indicator but the "safe dive"on the dial has to go imo I forgot about that, if you want a safe dive get a diving computer.  Stop the BS.  |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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right-o JP...maybe "safe desk dive" would have been appropriate?... ...12in of snow overnight and today and the mail truck decided not to try and get in the drive nor near the mail box on the road cuz we all got plowed in by the county and naturally after I already cleared my drive...so I missed my new arrival Doxa 600T today! |
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Paxman 3T WIS 
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oagaspar wrote:
My thoughts exactly. Not diggin' the bracelet either... This is a miss imho. |
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Johnny P Advisor
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oagaspar wrote:right-o JP...maybe "safe desk dive" would have been appropriate?... Safe Dive, I guess all previous Doxa diving watches aren't safe to dive with (no indicator)  |
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watchdaddy1 3T WIS
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Look @ the first full reveal pic @ WUS You would think that on their first official photo release of the watch they could at least line up the bezel at the 12 position. |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS 
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I'm not sure if I'm alone here but....the entire Doxa line looks better when seen in person and held in the hands than in pictures. This model though still doesn't attract me. Must be something about the bezels and BORs of Doxa, IMO. |
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stew77 Admin
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...My bad on the pic size...very sorry about that... You guys crack me up regarding the 4000T...but I love that about everyone here at 3T...straight up comments all the way with no need to beat around the bush!!!  I agree 1000% regarding all the build up and hype on this one from Doxa...heck, I thought it wasn't going to even look like a Doxa given all the pre-hype comments about it being a groundbreaking new Doxa that would be totally different in design than the traditional Doxa. To me, it's an evolution of the much loved Doxa case design (and I'm very happy about that because IMO...it's what gives a Doxa much of its appeal)...and as I said, the small changes in the case design on this 4000T are my primary likes of this new one. The biggest departure for me is the lack of a BOR design bracelet, but I'm not convinced that I hate the new bracelet...and I'm at least happy that the bracelet on this one has that cool Doxa ratcheting dive extension courtesy of the 5000T. I also agree with you guys on the 'safe dive' wording on the power reserve...yes, cheesy and gimmicky...I think I might be able to get over it, but I wish it said simply "Reserve" or something like that... I continue to like the size of the case on this one...the 750T is one of my favorite Doxa models (and I always love to see Mark's 750T Pro in the daily lineup!!!), and I like that this one is sized similarly to the 750T. All IMO...but the pros continue to outweigh the cons on this one for me...not to say that I won't pick up a 750T first... Some resized pics below (in addition to some close up shots of the bracelet with ratcheting diver extension):       Last edited on Mon Dec 6th, 2010 09:14 pm by stew77 |
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Johnny P Advisor
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stew77 wrote:...My bad on the pic size...very sorry about that... Overall it's a nice watch, but it doesn't get my heart jumping or excited, hopefully the sapphire version will. |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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instead of the "safe dive" wording and being a bit on the large size for a power reserve indicator I would have liked the power reserve(same location on the dial) to be smaller in size(1/2 the size) and just the arrow with the red/yellow/green indicator...red for danger,yellow-caution,green go...maybe someone with photoshop experience could mock this up?...or something like the power reserve on the Orient Beast below...something a bit more subtle... ...could look like crap too on the other hand. Attachment: 0 beast!!!=.jpg (Downloaded 76 times) |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Johnny's version Attachment: Sub4000T_3T1.jpg (Downloaded 75 times) |
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Jeep99dad 3T WIS 
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meh! Doesn't do it for me but I think it's the whole crappy build up that got me disappointed and being negative about it.. I really had high expectations based on all the crap they wrote, expected something really different and cool. The case does have some differences but not that noticeable nor that great. The bezel is the same, the dial same genre but with a too large power reserve indicator and the Safe Dive BS. The bracelet... well.. it's another bracelet that look like many others. I had problems finding the right fit on my 5000T wihtout micro adjustments too. It is just my opnion but it has less personality than prior Doxa models. I prefer both the 750 and 5000t I think |
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stew77 Admin
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Johnny P wrote: Johnny's version Johnny P...I'm not sure about the colors on the power reserve with that one, but the scale is just perfect!!! ...make that an all black power reserve (at least for the Pro version) scale graduated just like you've done, and I'm liking that alot more. Very nice feature that doesn't overpower the entire dial. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Just woke up and thought that I should put some fresh eyes on it...But the case design on the crown side jumped at me: Should be rounder...And the Safe-Dive, and the bracelet...And...NO. |
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Johnny P Advisor
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stew77 wrote:Johnny P wrote:Johnny's version You're correct the colors need some fine turning, it was a five minute job. How about this one?   |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:stew77 wrote: Well done Johnny: Looks good to me like that, maybe a tiny bit bigger. Except the case and the bracelet, it's not so bad At the end, I just think that they should make a 5000T with power-reserve and that's it Been reading the ultralong-suspensfull-agonizing 4000T's thread on WUS and it seems like they been eating them nails for little there: I'm glad that it's not like that on 3T... I'm not a kid waiting Xmass since februar anymore "Show me some or pack-up baby..." |
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stew77 Admin
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Johnny P wrote: stew77 wrote: Very nicely done Johnny!!! I like the first one that you did above without the 'safe dive' script.  Very clean implementation of the Power Reserve without dominating that classic Doxa dial, and the "all-black" graduated meter with the simple - + looks sleek and classy against that orange Pro dial. Perfect!!! |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Doxa love these pictures |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny, it's just a matter of time before Doxa realise that they should have consulted you for them "new" designs Nothing is new with this 4000T case in fact: It's just inspired by the Benrus/Galet/Marathon Navigator pilot with the case coming out in crown guard... Except that the original is looking good. |
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sharkfin 3T WIS 
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Nice work on the pr there Johnny. Better improvement IMO. The 4000T is the culmination of 10yrs in the making, based on customer requests. Ya right. If they'd listen to their customers, they'd have some winners just as what Johnny's little tweak did. Its a fail for me on this one and their business model. |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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this is the same discussion that took place when Doxa stopped producing the 600T...everyone was pissed but in the end everyone got over it. ...I'll wait to see some of the pics that WIS will be putting up by the end of the mo. of the new 4000T before I make a decision and I am excited to see this sapphire bezel which from what I have seen only pertains to the outer bezel and that was something Doxa fans have wanted forever...a bezel that doesn't attract swirlies so easy...I'm also looking forward to the enamel type dial and to see the actual shape of the case ... the pics Doxa provided does not show what they have been saying as far as it being round....hopefully the "safe dive" will not be as large as the magnified pics provided. ...and hopefully Rick will still be talking to me after all this harping on the new 4000T!! ...many WIS do not remember when the Doxa forum 1st came into existence and how dead it was for years!....WIS like Johnny who were instrumental in getting that forum off the ground can tell you that Doxa was not that popular as it was nothing more than a micro brand that resurrected a dive watch that was worn by Jacques Cousteau... ....Doxa could have left the forum as their popularity grew much like Kobold who also had a forum at the same time and left because of all the negativity and trolls who had nothing better to do than incite discord among WIS and brands based on little to no knowledge. ....instead Doxa stayed and gave a voice to their fans which are many now and yet the voice of a few negative WIS and the actions of some over zealous Mods seem to take front row and overpower the intent of what Doxa may want to purvey...I'll agree that Doxa should take responsibility over the frustrations of many due largely over the gimmicks and slow reveal like some second rate shopping show hack....hopefully they have learned a precious lesson. ...In the long run Doxa will again prevail with their dive watch designs and we will still continue to whine ...all while wearing a Doxa.... |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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...and hopefully Rick will still be talking to me after all this harping on the new 4000T!! Well Oscar, it's thrue that many hard critics been coming out here and I wasn't the last... Rick should understand that it's not out of disrespect for the brand Doxa but just out of deceptions about this new model. I guess that if the WIS community on WUS was feeling as free as we feel here, some of them would have also made more spiky comments. Now, I don't know if they don't dare or just fear to be censored and I don't really care. What I care about is the free speach we have here. Rick should understand that this model will satisfie some WIS and deceive others: At list everyone of them are welcome here on 3T, thanks to you |
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Paxman 3T WIS
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You ase right Oscar, this is nothing new for Oscar. I was threatened with a ban after speaking out on the Doxa forum some years ago. Wouldn't be the first or last time I was threatened with or banned from that forum. And as Will says... that's precisely why many of us have ended up here where we are given a bit more lattitiude to voice our opinions. I have always felt Doxa pays lip service to its customers in that they seem to listen and take input, but they simply put out what they want to put out. And by and large a Doxa is a Doxa is a Doxa. Derivative design with minor changes. However, its a design many love and will buy. Doxa also hypes these "new" releases unnecessarily. Did anyone really expect something revolutionary from Doxa?? |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Paxman wrote:
I did really, for real, some hopeOnce upon a time I use to own five Doxas, Coppa Milano, 750T Searambler, 750T Mil Ed, 2005 T-Graph pro, and 5000T Mil Ed. I loved them all but I don't miss them, OK maybe the Coppa Doxa pro Warranty service overall was good (except for the stealth lume fiasco, to bad that individual wasn't at arm length, I would had put that 750T Mil Ed up where the sun doesn't shine. It would have been stealth for sure.) Con: Your PVD sucks, my experience after owning two. Suggestions Don't advertise until you have a working prototype and don't set a date. Majority WIS are impatient. Plus when you rush things s&^% happens, not good for Doxa or the customers. Take the good with the bad criticism. Your watches are nice, but not tough enough, try to use latest technologies some hardening process such as, DLC, 6th steel etc... I prefer to have one tough watch with a clean legible dial, great lume and a top grade movement. Instead of five watches. This watch has met all criteria, except it"s not a diver. I wear it 99% of the time, hasn't been pampered. Not one scratch hard to believe but true.  Here is another tough watch, not abused just normal wear, no scratches.  These are keepers  Gave me advance notice when you're going to build a diver with all these criteria s , I don't have $2000 or $3000 dollars laying around for watches anymore. At least 6 months notice. |
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sharkfin 3T WIS
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Well, I did expect something that would blow me away. It was out of Doxa's camp that we all should wait, and be patient, it will all be worth it due to new designs to many features of a brand new model. With all the hype and speculations. It was set up to fail IMO. Unnecessary hype is right. The "Doxa slow reveal program" was disliked by many including myself. I was called a troll on that thread. I got the pms from them insinuating my trollness and starting an "anti doxa campaign" as they called it. I merely asked questions, voiced opinions that many would agree with. Never bashed Doxa watches. I did not understand and disliked the "safe dive". Many others felt the same way. IMO, I stated that I disliked their marketing practice, and many others probably do too, judging by the many posts their and other forums. This criticism was in hopes Doxa would see the light and make some changes. Sees like its futile. I'm just a Doxa fan, potential customer, raising concerns and some criticisms. They handled it poorly IMO. It was very damaging for their PR. But it may be just an afterthought as history shows. That was my 2 cents. IMO, the Numa made more an impact. Dave Last edited on Thu Dec 9th, 2010 04:00 pm by sharkfin |
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BlueViper 3T WIS
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What a disaster for Doxa. They really stuck their foot in their mouth on this one. The watch looks ok but the way they have handled the feedback has been horrendous. You should NEVER jab at your customer base. I guess they thought people who were really going to buy a watch would not pay attention...well they were wrong. I was considering on buying the 5000 but I will pass. Doxa showed their true colors on this one and it was not good. FAIL! |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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I was looking real-life pictures on WUS from this new model...Well, I didn't change my mind even the case don't look as "flat" as in the drawing. I just don't like the lines so much compare to earlyer models. Anyway, I also think that the polish center-links was a bad choice compare to the drawing where it's all brushed. Anyone noticed that the helium valve isn't coming at the cases's border but rather seat a bit deep inside??? First time I ever see that on a helium valve... Looks like it will born a crap-bucket after few weeks of use there... http://forums.watchuseek.com/f34/hmmm-i-guess-im-first-sub-4000t-more-pics-added-482825-post3544539.html#poststop |
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SBD 3T WIS
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I thought I would like this one despite the odd "safe dive" text, but seeing the first pix of the real deal changed my mind. I now think it's a bit off. But the thing that really gets me is how Doxa have been handling things. Frankly, a rather ugly picture is emerging around their business practices. Sad because I really like their designs. I have owned 3 Doxas in the past and have always figured I end up with another on my wrist at some point. Now I'm not so sure... |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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SBD: Personaly, I was considering buying a 5000T 2 months ago and ended up with an Alpina regulator manufacture...I don't regret at all: Specialy since I found out that all Dicksa parts was apparently made in Hong King Kong. I don't like to take bananas |
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murphy j 3T WIS 
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Hammerfjord wrote:I was looking real-life pictures on WUS from this new model...Well, I didn't change my mind even the case don't look as "flat" as in the drawing. Sheriff Will always has such a way with wordslaughing.gif On a more serious note... I'm in the uhh not so much camp. I agree it just looks off. Maybe I'd change my mind if I saw one in person, but I doubt it. |
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Jeep99dad 3T WIS
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laughing.gif YOU really crack me up on a daily basis!!! I had heard some parts were made in Asia but never seen confirmation. I am sure I missed a thread or article.. that said ifg the end product is of high quality, some folks don't mind where some of the parts came from. That said I don't think I'll ever pay full price for a Doxa, Asian parts or not. Now back to the 4000T I have to say that the mvt interests me and seeing new pictures the case has grown on me but somehow somethinig seems off, proportions maybe... not sued to see so much dial? Not sure.. The things that do bug me about it, and it is just a matter of taste and my opinion, nothing against Doxa as I love their subs in general...: - PR roo large and invasive - Safe Dive verbiage - Polished Center link!! Like that darn poslished outter bezel was not enough to worry about. I just don't like polish SS in general. Just me.- Bracelet design in general. Just not my taste. and no 1/2 links. Will be tough for some to size right. - Hand not painted/finish all the way arond. Edges look rough. Seems unacceptable at this price point, at least to me. But if I held it in my hand, it may be a different story but it is my opinion based on pics. I also was somewhat disappointed by some of the Doxa staff replies to members. I Still love Doxas - Hammerfjord wrote: SBD: Personaly, I was considering buying a 5000T 2 months ago and ended up with an Alpina regulator manufacture...I don't regret at all: Specialy since I found out that all Dicksa parts was apparently made in Hong King Kong. I don't like to take bananas |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Well, thanks Brice and Murphy! I enjoy free expression here: My poetic mind is having a blast too! How could you miss this one Brice? That was the post of the year! http://www.timetechtalk.com/forum1/22074.html |
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Jeep99dad 3T WIS
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wow, I just read the whole thread.. how did I miss that? I am not too surprised with parts coming fom Asia but did not consider the whole watch may be assembled there! That would be extremely disappointing in terms of the company's ethics or lack thereof, though from a product stadpoint, I love myy Doxas and find them well built. I just would prefer honesty... also I would not consider buying a Doxa new from them.. even less so now. |
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Jeep99dad 3T WIS
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BY the way, someone on that thread says the pics were taken off but there are back now.. I would love to hear Doxa's side of the storyk, but I am afraid to get beat to death if I dare ask :) |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Jeep99dad wrote:BY the way, someone on that thread says the pics were taken off but there are back now.. I would love to hear Doxa's side of the storyk, but I am afraid to get beat to death if I dare ask :) You are right, the pictures are back on the site! Yes: They was taken off...I and others can witness on that. I did give the link to Johnny after I found it on a European forum: Someone from or connected to Doxa was there,on the forum, saying that as Doxa is owning Walca, it was normal that those pics was there...Blablabla...Soon after, only those was disappearing: Making all of that even more suspicious. As those pics was stolen by Johnny and posted here, they may thought that they should reput them, to cool down suspicions. Why does Doxa own Walca if they have a factory in Switzerland?? Just to produce them Chinese-market models appearing on them Doxa-China site? Come-on! I know that Doxa been asking a German watch-brand(Who had it's cases made in HongKong) around 2007 for supplying them parts with "Swiss-Made" engraved on. The German company refused those terms... Now, I can't prove that with documents but I trust my sources. As told previously on the other thread, I have nothing against the fact that Doxa has it's parts made in HK but then the price should not be in the range of watches having parts made in Switzerland. They also should come clean about it, as others do. Meaning that originaly, a non COSC Doxa sub's cost is around 200$ as any Chinese-parts-made watch from this range. Why should we pay around 2000$ for it then???? About the watch been assembled in China: Who knows! But them office and main building in Switzerland seems to me, to be just an office and not any factory: I would love to go there and prove it... Doxa fans been begging Doxa to produce pictures from them factory in Zurich: Never happened! You can try to present the link on WUS: Remember, that you'll certainly get banned like a slimy rotten dog |
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