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Olivier Bronze reveal by Oceanic Times

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Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 12:18 am

oagaspar
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Olivier wrote: Hey Guys!

Very sorry for the late reply, but this forum does not email me when posts are made to threads. The change in the bronze alloy is extremely small, and still constitutes a CuSn8 alloy. The additions to the alloy are around a half of 1 percent to the total mix, in fact, other CuSn8's are most likely mixtures like this as well.Roland this forum does infact e-mail when replies are made to posts you participate in...if you have that preference set,and you do...

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 12:29 am

oagaspar
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Craustin1 wrote: Here is the Chemical composition of CuSn8:
Chemical Composition:
Sn: 7.50-8.50%
P: 0.03-0.35%
Zn: 0.20% Max.
Fe: 0.10% Max.
Pb: 0.05% Max.
Zn: Balance
CuSn8 - UNS.C52100 Phosphor Bronze Alloys, which is a 8% tin bronze distinguished by a very good combination of strength and electrical conductivity. It is used for connector and current-carrying springs in contacts. Among the 4-8% tin bronze C52100 exhibits the lowest electrical conductivity, the highest reachable strength is significantly higher than C51100 and C51000 and C51900. By means of an additional further tempering after the cold forming process the bendability can be further improved.
In addition, it has better corrosion resistance and good sliding properties. C52100 is used for springy components and sliding elements when increased strength and wear-resistance are required.

From what I read, in general most Bronze is defined by being a metal alloy, with it's primary composition that of Copper... CuSn8 would then be also a copper alloy. I think we are now just splitting hairs..

...you left out the company name for your google search... ALB Copper Alloys Co., Ltd. Xiamen, China Tel: +86-592-5631276 Fax: +86-592-5750151 Email:Lindy.Chen AT alb-copperalloys.com Please visit our website:http://www.alb-copperalloys.com...CHINA aka Chinese Bronze which all the other companies who revealed the bronze indiscretion to begin with had in their watches/Benarus/Helson/Zenton...brass because of the zinc in it...Roland is claiming Germany! and this is the composition of true CuSn8 bronze...
Cu : 91,5
P : 0,2
Sn : 8,5
and even purer it would be 8% tin and 92% copper...

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 12:36 am

oagaspar
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Olivier wrote: oagaspar wrote:
sorry to hear this,and I guess Roland does not want to reply here,but then he probably knows we know more than we let on...
what everyone will be getting is probably what he had to begin with...and that was not CuSn8... this new alloy is a copper alloy,not bronze from what I have been told,and not an upgrade at all... all this after he repeatedly swore in this thread that his watches in hand were cuSn8...

Hey Oscar!

I would definitely have appreciated a PM! The changes to the alloy are slight, but nothing but beneficial.PM?...I pm'd you over a month ago asking you to call me as I had relevant info about the bronze you were using...you did not reply...notta!

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 12:50 am

Craustin1
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My point was that at some point it's still splitting hairs. Has anyone tested the Panerai Bronze to see what the chemical break up of that is? I doubt it's SWISS bronze. Same thing with a lot of the stainless steel watches we have, there are differences in china metals as those sourced from US Steel plants. At some point this just becomes an argument in futility; those that want to buy a Bronze watch for $600, $800, or $1500 probably know its a compromise from one costing $10,000 or $20,000 in several ways. That does not mean you get less enjoyment from that piece around your wrist. Lum-Tec has a Bronze watch coming out too, they have announced they have their own blend of CuSn8, are they the next to be flamed?

oagaspar wrote: Craustin1 wrote: Here is the Chemical composition of CuSn8:
Chemical Composition:
Sn: 7.50-8.50%
P: 0.03-0.35%
Zn: 0.20% Max.
Fe: 0.10% Max.
Pb: 0.05% Max.
Zn: Balance
CuSn8 - UNS.C52100 Phosphor Bronze Alloys, which is a 8% tin bronze distinguished by a very good combination of strength and electrical conductivity. It is used for connector and current-carrying springs in contacts. Among the 4-8% tin bronze C52100 exhibits the lowest electrical conductivity, the highest reachable strength is significantly higher than C51100 and C51000 and C51900. By means of an additional further tempering after the cold forming process the bendability can be further improved.
In addition, it has better corrosion resistance and good sliding properties. C52100 is used for springy components and sliding elements when increased strength and wear-resistance are required.

From what I read, in general most Bronze is defined by being a metal alloy, with it's primary composition that of Copper... CuSn8 would then be also a copper alloy. I think we are now just splitting hairs..

Craustin,if you are going to google,google correctly...you left out the company name for your info... ALB Copper Alloys Co., Ltd. Xiamen, China Tel: +86-592-5631276 Fax: +86-592-5750151 Email:Lindy.Chen AT alb-copperalloys.com Please visit our website:http://www.alb-copperalloys.com...CHINA aka Chinese Bronze which all the other companies who revealed the bronze indiscretion to begin with had in their watches/Benarus/Helson/Zenton...brass because of the zinc in it...Roland is claiming Germany! and this is the composition of true CuSn8 bronze...
Cu : 91,5
P : 0,2
Sn : 8,5
and even purer it would be 8% tin and 92% copper...
once you start adding anything else to the mix it is a copper alloy!

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:00 am

Craustin1
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Also, the specs that Roland had posted are from a French company, so we should also be wary of french CuSn8? (not saying that is what he is using)

http://www.frwcarobronze.fr/certificat.htm?lang=en

By the way, I do not know Roland, other than I bought a buckle from him a few months back, and it has not pulverized yet..

oagaspar wrote: Craustin1 wrote: Here is the Chemical composition of CuSn8:
Chemical Composition:
Sn: 7.50-8.50%
P: 0.03-0.35%
Zn: 0.20% Max.
Fe: 0.10% Max.
Pb: 0.05% Max.
Zn: Balance
CuSn8 - UNS.C52100 Phosphor Bronze Alloys, which is a 8% tin bronze distinguished by a very good combination of strength and electrical conductivity. It is used for connector and current-carrying springs in contacts. Among the 4-8% tin bronze C52100 exhibits the lowest electrical conductivity, the highest reachable strength is significantly higher than C51100 and C51000 and C51900. By means of an additional further tempering after the cold forming process the bendability can be further improved.
In addition, it has better corrosion resistance and good sliding properties. C52100 is used for springy components and sliding elements when increased strength and wear-resistance are required.

From what I read, in general most Bronze is defined by being a metal alloy, with it's primary composition that of Copper... CuSn8 would then be also a copper alloy. I think we are now just splitting hairs..

...you left out the company name for your google search... ALB Copper Alloys Co., Ltd. Xiamen, China Tel: +86-592-5631276 Fax: +86-592-5750151 Email:Lindy.Chen AT alb-copperalloys.com Please visit our website:http://www.alb-copperalloys.com...CHINA aka Chinese Bronze which all the other companies who revealed the bronze indiscretion to begin with had in their watches/Benarus/Helson/Zenton...brass because of the zinc in it...Roland is claiming Germany! and this is the composition of true CuSn8 bronze...
Cu : 91,5
P : 0,2
Sn : 8,5
and even purer it would be 8% tin and 92% copper...

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:08 am

oagaspar
Site Founder

Joined:	Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location:	Akron, USA
Posts:	28626
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Craustin1 wrote: Also, the specs that Roland had posted are from a French company, so we should also be wary of french CuSn8? (not saying that is what he is using)

oagaspar wrote: Craustin1 wrote: Here is the Chemical composition of CuSn8:
Chemical Composition:
Sn: 7.50-8.50%
P: 0.03-0.35%
Zn: 0.20% Max.
Fe: 0.10% Max.
Pb: 0.05% Max.
Zn: Balance
CuSn8 - UNS.C52100 Phosphor Bronze Alloys, which is a 8% tin bronze distinguished by a very good combination of strength and electrical conductivity. It is used for connector and current-carrying springs in contacts. Among the 4-8% tin bronze C52100 exhibits the lowest electrical conductivity, the highest reachable strength is significantly higher than C51100 and C51000 and C51900. By means of an additional further tempering after the cold forming process the bendability can be further improved.
In addition, it has better corrosion resistance and good sliding properties. C52100 is used for springy components and sliding elements when increased strength and wear-resistance are required.

From what I read, in general most Bronze is defined by being a metal alloy, with it's primary composition that of Copper... CuSn8 would then be also a copper alloy. I think we are now just splitting hairs..

...you left out the company name for your google search... ALB Copper Alloys Co., Ltd. Xiamen, China Tel: +86-592-5631276 Fax: +86-592-5750151 Email:Lindy.Chen AT alb-copperalloys.com Please visit our website:http://www.alb-copperalloys.com...CHINA aka Chinese Bronze which all the other companies who revealed the bronze indiscretion to begin with had in their watches/Benarus/Helson/Zenton...brass because of the zinc in it...Roland is claiming Germany! and this is the composition of true CuSn8 bronze...
Cu : 91,5
P : 0,2
Sn : 8,5
and even purer it would be 8% tin and 92% copper...

again,just sayin',if you are going to google...that is a French Co. distributing China alloys...

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:17 am

oagaspar
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Craustin,you can call it splitting hairs,flaming,whatever!...but take the time to read this entire thread,and take into consideration what was being implied...is $850. with eta a good deal on a bronze alloy watch?...imo it is,as long as Zinc does not exist in the composition...once it appears it is no longer bronze.
....Roland repeatedly stated his watches were CuSn8 in this thread,also German...now suddenly while in the machining stage they show impurities...what impurities?...the new high tech bronze he is claiming has impurities as well...it contains elements other than copper and tin...this is what I am pointing out... this new alloy can also be considered CuSn8 since everyone now believes it has such a wide range of elements,so then why say anything?...you see it's not about bronze or brass anymore,it's about being truthful....it's about using the term CuSn8,because Panerai used the same...why did all the bronze watch guys claim that?...because that is what the Chinese watch manufacturers told them,and lead them to believe.Roland included imho...

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:22 am

Hammerfjord
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Location:	Arctic, Norway
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Craustin1 wrote:
Also, the specs that Roland had posted are from a French company, so we should also be wary of french CuSn8? (not saying that is what he is using)

http://www.frwcarobronze.fr/certificat.htm?lang=en

By the way, I do not know Roland, other than I bought a buckle from him a few months back, and it has not pulverized yet..

oagaspar wrote: Craustin1 wrote: Here is the Chemical composition of CuSn8:
Chemical Composition:
Sn: 7.50-8.50%
P: 0.03-0.35%
Zn: 0.20% Max.
Fe: 0.10% Max.
Pb: 0.05% Max.
Zn: Balance
CuSn8 - UNS.C52100 Phosphor Bronze Alloys, which is a 8% tin bronze distinguished by a very good combination of strength and electrical conductivity. It is used for connector and current-carrying springs in contacts. Among the 4-8% tin bronze C52100 exhibits the lowest electrical conductivity, the highest reachable strength is significantly higher than C51100 and C51000 and C51900. By means of an additional further tempering after the cold forming process the bendability can be further improved.
In addition, it has better corrosion resistance and good sliding properties. C52100 is used for springy components and sliding elements when increased strength and wear-resistance are required.

From what I read, in general most Bronze is defined by being a metal alloy, with it's primary composition that of Copper... CuSn8 would then be also a copper alloy. I think we are now just splitting hairs..

...you left out the company name for your google search... ALB Copper Alloys Co., Ltd. Xiamen, China Tel: +86-592-5631276 Fax: +86-592-5750151 Email:Lindy.Chen AT alb-copperalloys.com Please visit our website:http://www.alb-copperalloys.com...CHINA aka Chinese Bronze which all the other companies who revealed the bronze indiscretion to begin with had in their watches/Benarus/Helson/Zenton...brass because of the zinc in it...Roland is claiming Germany! and this is the composition of true CuSn8 bronze...
Cu : 91,5
P : 0,2
Sn : 8,5
and even purer it would be 8% tin and 92% copper...

This certificate is issued by the Norwegian Veritas: Who knows why when it's a French addressed company and the French Veritas would be valable as well.
So there is importation there: Not necessary from Norway!
This certificate was also issued the 18 march 2009 and expired the 17 march 2012.
Any certification is just as good as butt paper the very first minute after midnight over the expiration's date.

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:31 am

Craustin1
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To finish up for tonight, cus I'm tired; does anyone of the subject matter experts know the composition of the Bronzo as I had asked before? You all do bring up interesting points tough... I think I am going to be loosing sleep tonight, and I won't be able to enjoy my Shelby GT 500 anymore, since I bought an American muscle car, but Ford is sourcing parts from all over the world... It just somehow ruined the feeling of having 550hp at my right foot. Nite all.

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:34 am

oagaspar
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Craustin1 wrote: To finish up for tonight, cus I'm tired; does anyone of the subject matter experts know the composition of the Bronzo as I had asked before? You all do bring up interesting points tough... I think I am going to be loosing sleep tonight, and I won't be able to enjoy my Shelby GT 500 anymore, since I bought an American muscle car, but Ford is sourcing parts from all over the world... It just somehow ruined the feeling of having 550hp at my right foot. Nite all.and Ford never hid that fact from you,you knew what you were buying...now who is splitting hairs?

Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2012 01:45 am

Hammerfjord
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oagaspar wrote:
Craustin,you can call it splitting hairs,flaming,whatever!...but take the time to read this entire thread,and take into consideration what was being implied...is $850. with eta a good deal on a bronze alloy watch?...imo it is,as long as Zinc does not exist in the composition...once it appears it is no longer bronze.
....Roland repeatedly stated his watches were CuSn8 in this thread,also German...now suddenly while in the machining stage they show impurities...what impurities?...the new high tech bronze he is claiming has impurities as well...it contains elements other than copper and tin...this is what I am pointing out... this new alloy can also be considered CuSn8 since everyone now believes it has such a wide range of elements,so then why say anything?...you see it's not about bronze or brass anymore,it's about being truthful....it's about using the term CuSn8,because Panerai used the same...why did all the bronze watch guys claim that?...because that is what the Chinese watch manufacturers told them,and lead them to believe.Roland included imho...
Any of bronze alloy is not made to be used on human skin anyway: Some metal contained inside being lightly poisonous during corrosion.
Those alloy never been conceived with this in mind: They was conceived for industrial purposes.
Panerai made it's choice and it don't mean that it's the absolute best in fact: Panerai is not transforming bronze in gold.
Now, the Chinese are using this brand's prestige to supposedly sell this alloy: It's just about marketing as Oscar says it.
Sure, this CuSn8 has a special tone but the same tone can surely be replicated with a slightly different alloy who may be containing more or less poisonous metals.
Hopefully this bronze craze will pass: Coz all of that starts to be tiring and ridiculous.
One more time, all I see is a bunch of WIS who think that high brands are gods dictating laws of nature....

Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2012 02:53 pm

Mike T.
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Not me! I was just watching the show!

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