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jsb806f Guest
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Dear Friends, I saw an Eberhard in my latest edition of InSync Magazine. I went to check it out on the internet and Googled Eberhard. To my surpise I turned up a bunch of sites featuring replica watches. For example, link edited/removed by 3T admin/O 1. What are the ethical issues surrounding the purchase of replica watches, if any? 2. Are these replics any good? Looks like many of them are made in Japan using Japanese automatic or quartz movements. Seiko does to and that's a well respected high quality brand. Your thoughts? |
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rare m5 3T WIS
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Don't buy replica watches.... Period. |
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srh_pres 3T WIS 
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I agree, wouldnt knowingly buy a replica - but a nice hommage for sure...;) |
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jsb806f Guest
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That's not being very responsive. I can't afford to hang an original Van Gogh in my living room but I can afford to own and display a high quality print. I suspect many of us have or have owned at some point art prints of priceless paintings. How is that any different than a replica Rolex Explorer? I am not saying I would or that anyone should go out and buy a replica (or fake) watch. I'm asking a legitimate question here for educational purposes. Last edited on Fri Sep 28th, 2007 09:54 pm by |
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KenC Admin 
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Design?............according to Einstein's theory of the stream of consciousness, there are no new ideas. One simply reaches into the stream and implements an already known idea. In watches, there are just so many things you can do with a case, dial and hands....the combinations are finite! Homages, look-a-likes, near misses, influenced by...et al....fine with me as long as it is clearly marked! But a true replica...a watch intended to fool someone into thinking it is other than it really is...is a counterfeit, and thus, illegal! |
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srh_pres 3T WIS
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I think we're saying the same thing... I would equate the high quality print of a Van Gogh to an 'hommage' watch - some of them are almost identical to the watch they are based on, just without having the copyrighted logos etc. |
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hucky 3T WIS 
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I would buy one as a beater to make sure I like it before I spend 14,000.00 dollars on a watch that I probably wont wear due to its a safe queen at that price. I bought a marina militaire to see how they felt on my wrist before buying a panerai When a guy sells one to somebody knowing that it is fake, thats a drag and im sure they are all over the place. Cheers |
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jsb806f Guest
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Ken, That's what I would think. However, if that is true, there seem to be a lot of sites on the internet where you can apparently purchase these "illegal" watches. I've read a number of the "legal notices" explaining that these are sold as replics and not as the original item. The seller is clearly stating that these are not the originals. If I then purchase the replica and tell others it is the real deal I might be engaged in unethical behavior but certainly not illegal behavior. You really aren't saying that someone can be arrested for buying or wearing a replica watch? |
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KenC Admin
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JSB....To me, it is the intent of deception. Period, end of story.....a Print, regardless of the quality, while still beautiful, is not intended to convince someone that it is an original Van Gogh oil! A counterfeit Rolex with all of the markings including a fake green hologram, is intended to deceive in an effort to conclude a fraudulent act for some sort of personal gain....as opposed to the Seiko "Rolex Day-Date" homage that looks identical to the Rolex, but is clearly marked for what it is! |
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KenC Admin
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jsb806f wrote: Ken, Legally...yes...one does expose himself to that risk...although the "law" is after the distributors and manufacturers (who usually remain discreetly offshore)! We have all read about goods such as fake Levi's, High-end watch replica's, high- end purses, etc. being confiscated by customs and the police! |
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jsb806f Guest
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Hucky, Good point but that's a different question. I completely understand the initial reaction of buying something that I thought was real only to find out it is a fake! If I sell you a replica Rolex Explorer and claim that I am selling you an original that would be both unethical and illegal. That's a form of stealing. I am taking your money (and lots of it) under a false pretense. That's the same as buying a used car when the dealer has rolled back the miles. I am being cheated. I'd really like to own a Panerai not beacuse of what is inside but because I like the way it looks. If I could buy a watch that was a replica of a Panerai but had the guts of a Seiko for $250 I think I would be happy. Again, I am troubled by my logic but it doesn't seem "wrong" anymore than owning my Ansel Adams print is wrong. I bought it knowing it wasn't the original photograph. I like it a lot. I certainly haven't done anything "illegal" by buying it and the print shop in the mall hasn't done anything illegal by selling it to me as a copy. But have I done something wrong. |
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jsb806f Guest
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That's making more sense to me Ken. I would probably be more confortable if I were buying a "Bolex" designed to look like a Rolex versus a watch specifically made to deceive one into believing it is the real deal. I believe the Hong Kong Sandoz does that by comparing itself to the Rolex in side-by-side pictures. They are saying our product "looks" like a Rolex but at a fraction of the cost. So if you like the look but can't afford the real thing consider our Sandoz. they aren't selling a product designed to masquerade as a Rolex. If however I am only deceiving myself is any harm done? If I buy a fake Rolex and you see it on my wrist and think it is a real Rolex that wouldn't be illegal? It might be dishonest and lame? Last edited on Fri Sep 28th, 2007 10:30 pm by |
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Chick Hazzard 3T WIS 
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Replica=Cheap Chinese Copy I want a Panerai 1936 Radiomir, but it costs close to 7 G's. I can buy a cheap chinese copy with a Swiss Unitas movement for less than 500, and no one will really know the difference, but me. But that's the problem, I'll know it's a fake. Can't live with. I think prints of famous paintings are different. Most of that stuff is in museums and people know it's a print, but you can still appreciate the beauty of it. |
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hucky 3T WIS
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Wanna buy a rolex cheap  |
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zippofan 3T WIS 
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When I was in NYC last month I was sorely tempted to walk over to the "briefcase" guys with the fake watches at the Seaport. But I figured: 1. I would get ripped off 2. If I did buy one I would know it was a fake 3. I would prefer a "homage" with a known pedigree (and warranty!) I just couldn't do it. When I got home I bought a completely original Swatch Fun Scuba and got a great watch that is totally cool. Plus I have a clear conscience. As much as I want a Heuer Carrera, I'll wait until I can afford a real one rather than going for one of the fakes that I have seen on so many "replica watch" websites. I am always lecturing students about not stealing music through peer-to-peer websites. If I bought one, then I would be a hypocrite because ultimately fakes are stealing. JMHO. Cheers, Griff |
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mjl4321 3T WIS 
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The Ansel Adams print you purchased is produced with the permission of the Adams family who own the copyright of that image. The owner of the copyright benefits financially. The fake Rolex does not have the permission of the company that spent large amounts of time and money building a quality brand only to be 'leached' by someone looking to make a quick buck. As someone who has invested time and significant resources building a company selling software, I take it very seriously when someone illegally copies that software and deprives me of my livelihood simply because they cannot afford to buy the original. Copyright infringment is theft. jsb806f wrote: Hucky, |
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KenC Admin
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jsb806f wrote: That's making more sense to me Ken. I would probably be more confortable if I were buying a "Bolex" designed to look like a Rolex versus a watch specifically made to deceive one into believing it is the real deal. I believe the Hong Kong Sandoz does that by comparing itself to the Rolex in side-by-side pictures. They are saying our product "looks" like a Rolex but at a fraction of the cost. So if you like the look but can't afford the real thing consider our Sandoz. they aren't selling a product designed to masquerade as a Rolex. I'm not sure of the exact legal consequences, but it would seem that regardless of intent, one would, in fact, be dealing in counterfeit goods, which is...against the law! Most people that buy the fake Louis V purses, Rolex reps, etc., know that the goods are not the real thing, but, in purchasing it, they are suborning the manufacturers (counterfeiters) and distributors, and thus...the crime! Believe me, I understand the dilemma, but look st it this way, if you get arrested holding counterfeit $50 bills, the reason that you weren't really going to spend it, is not going to keep you out of the slammer.:) That said, knowing that there is no evil intent, I would say that it is purely a personal choice and make no judgement......a good "replica" that has the same quality movement as the original, the same detail of fit and finish, et AL, can be had for 1/10 the price of the original...and that overcharging by Panny, Rolex, etc, is what I think is really criminal!  |
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Scuba Steve 3T WIS 
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Lets put this simple. If you buy a watch from a place that is selling replica watches, even thought they say up front they are replicas you and the seller are both breaking the law. He is selling counterfeit goods and you are knowingly buying counterfeit goods. Lets not mix up a homage with a replica though. Those are not illegal. If it says Rolex on the dial and it isn't a Rolex, that is a replica or a fake. If for example you buy a Marcello C Nettuno which has an Oyster case very much the same as a Rolex Submariner, that is a homage and totally legal as well as ethical watch to own. Don't get suckered into buying a fake Rolex to see if you would like the real thing. Buy a Homage to see if the style fits you and pleases you. One more thing to add. If you buy a replica you will more than likely never be able to get it serviced as any ethical watchmaker will confiscate it and turn it over to the authorities along with your information on how to get ahold of you. Point to remember is that the movements in most replicas are rough Japanese motors that will keep terrible time. If they do have an ETA in them they are not normally regulated and are stock grade. It just isn't worth the hassle as well as legal consequences for a cheap knock off watch. Plus even if you own a real one, all you hear is "Is that a fake." They don't really garner the respect like they used to even though they are very fine timepieces. Last edited on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 01:15 am by Scuba Steve |
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IWR222 3T WIS 
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this year we went to thailand for our holidays .this place is the home of the copy,i had a look and play with the fakes . more than one fell apart in my hands , though the best bit for me was the guy trying to prove the watch had a saffire crystal not on that iwc it didnt.he took his screwdriver and hit the glass several times making a real mess. i thought my trousers would never dry. i came away without a watch despite a friend at work asking me to get him one,stay clear is my advice. |
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Paxman 3T WIS 
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In my world replica = counterfeit = NO!! I can deal with the homage. I am mixed on the Alpha which I am sure produces replicas as well as selling their own homages. My sister in law brought me back two replicas from a visit to China. It was a funny move on her part. Do I wear my $40 worth of Rolex. NEVER!!   |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS 
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I'm also fine with a homage but a replica well it would end up in a recycle bin or I would break it down so I could get a very close look. :? |
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jdmac 3T WIS 
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I own a very early Rolex dateJust Replica That was given to me by a Family Member at a funeral for my Nearest and Dearest Friend who died at a mere 28 years old. They new I collected watches and wished me to have it. They offered me the home he just purchased 6 mo's previous of his death at what he payed ( a mear 45,000) and even offered to finance the downpayment. I respectfully denied as I don't think it would have felt right or a happy home. I wear this replica one day a year, on the anniversary of his passing, and wear it proudly. Take it out for a little Beverage and show it off, than back in the vault for another year. 7 years passed and many more to grieve. But, Ya know what. Thingy is nearly 25 years old I suspect and still Runs!!!!!! Just my 2 cents worth.................. I really like how a few SWISS ROLEX Makers are actually building pieces with ETA-Valjoux, etc-Solid gold cases-Bracelets and Charging near 2000.00 Exact To a T Replicas. Why not spend the extra and get the real deal????????? I seriously thought about one Early this year as I wanted a Sub-18kt Full Gold and the price for new is 22,500.00 CDN. At 1900.00 for a copy that would pass any eye except the red wheels on the movement. Anyway, Lucked out a month later and found a 2004 Model for 9500.00USD...........PAID TO hold out and overide Temptation. Now, I could probably double my initial investment, and in years to come??????????????? $$$ CHING-CHING$$$ HAHA Last edited on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 12:37 pm by jdmac |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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WOW JD what a story. In such a case I would make an exception for such a watch too. |
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KenC Admin
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This subject has been discussed before...mostly on other forum with a great deal of vitrol and name calling....Ian I intitially thought this migt get oout of hand. It is an interesting subject with many different feeling concerning both moral and legal approaches. It is nice to finely see it discuss with intelligence and civilty rather than the usual bickering BS! hand6.gif Please forgive me for having doubts about the quality of the 3T membership!!! coyote2.gif |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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KenC wrote: This subject has been discussed before...mostly on other forum with a great deal of vitrol and name calling....Ian I intitially thought this migt get oout of hand. It is an interesting subject with many different feeling concerning both moral and legal approaches. It is nice to finely see it discuss with intelligence and civilty rather than the usual bickering BS! hand6.gif I forgive ya good buddy. happy1.gif |
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KenC Admin
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Skipdawg wrote: KenC wrote:This subject has been discussed before...mostly on other forum with a great deal of vitrol and name calling....Ian I intitially thought this migt get oout of hand. It is an interesting subject with many different feeling concerning both moral and legal approaches. It is nice to finely see it discuss with intelligence and civilty rather than the usual bickering BS! hand6.gif |
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srh_pres 3T WIS
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Somehow, I dont think getting rid of the watch will get rid of the stink pigma... heh... :shock: KenC wrote: Skipdawg wrote:KenC wrote:This subject has been discussed before...mostly on other forum with a great deal of vitrol and name calling....Ian I intitially thought this migt get oout of hand. It is an interesting subject with many different feeling concerning both moral and legal approaches. It is nice to finely see it discuss with intelligence and civilty rather than the usual bickering BS! hand6.gif |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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Ken if you sell that Pinky beauty I may take it. I ain't afraid of the color. :D I wore pick shirts, shoes and pink overalls as a teenager yourock.gif |
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KenC Admin
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Skipdawg wrote: Ken if you sell that Pinky beauty I may take it. I ain't afraid of the color. :D I'm not afraid of color....I'm afraid of you guys!!! goofy |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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What? I'm just a crazy Dawg. LOL  |
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jdmac 3T WIS
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Thanks Skip, I would never try to pass her off as Legit, hell, They didn't pay too much to detail back then either-Mine Reads " ROLEX Datejust" Yet it has a Day and Date wheel HAHA, WOULD BE HARD TO PASS OF AS ORIGIONAL!!!!! |
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MarkJnK 3T WIS 
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Well, this is a very interesting post, with alot of mature and level headed responses. I am guilty of owning one replica. Do I know it is wrong? Yes. Is it Illegal in my opinion? Yes. Why did I buy it? I've always wanted a Bell and Ross BR01. The price is huge, the size is huge, and I couldn't bear to buy the original sight unseen (or unworn) only to find out it is ridiculously big. At 46mm this is a watch that is so far out of the "norm" that I couldn't imagine how it would fit and look on the wrist. So I bought a rep to "test drive" the watch and see if I liked it enough to buy the original. While the quality of the rep is outstanding, and could easily pass as an original, I find I don't wear it because it feels wrong. I feel like a poser. So the replica did the job I asked of it, I now know that if the right deals pops up on an original B&R, I'll buy it with the confidence that I know how it will feel and look on the wrist. The rep will stay in the box. I'll never buy another rep. I didn't like the process, the guilt or the way I feel about the peice. |
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canadajo 3T WIS 
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I'll never buy another rep. I didn't like the process, the guilt or the way I feel about the peice. THAT WAS WELL PUT ......I COULDNT THINK OF A BETTER WAY TO SAY IT IF I HAD A HUNDRED YEARS ...... MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY ......... |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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There are few things to remember when purchasing a replica which many WIS do for whatever reason... #1 it is not a Swiss mov't regardless of what is said...if someone is selling a rep what makes anyone believe it is Swiss? the Asians have been replicating Swiss mov'ts for many years with great success. #2 If it breaks you are stuck with it as it is near impossible to find someone to repair it. #3 You can't resell it on any respectable watch forum....if you do you are gulity of selling a rep. #4 It will end up taking up space in your collection as you will get tired of it or as you grow in the hobby you will see the wrong in owning one. #5 replicators are stealing the right to use patented brand names and like any theft it raises the cost of the original product as the real manufactures do take steps legally to stop this type of activity.The cost is then passed on to the consumer. If all of this sits well with whoever is considering owning one then Congrats and enjoy your Rep alone:D |
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canadajo 3T WIS
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Here here ...well said sir !!!! oagaspar wrote: There are few things to remember when purchasing a replica which many WIS do for whatever reason... |
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trust 3T WIS 
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canadajo wrote: Here here ...well said sir !!!! No need to say more.....  |
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NANDO-FERDZ 3T WIS 
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When I hear the word REPLICA it sounds to me like cheap, low quality and illegal products that I cannot take. If you think that you can wear a replica watch in public and you can still be proud just go ahead and buy one. Otherwise please don't waste your $ to patronize illegal products. jsb806f wrote: Dear Friends, Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2007 02:11 am by NANDO-FERDZ |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS 
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This topic is a lot like the "Are you gay" check box on your enlistment papers.. Standing in line at the liqueur store with the rest of the members of your church the next county over that isn't dry and pretending you don't know each other... I'm a watch junkie if there was a way to own a replica legally I would sure be happier but my compulsion to "check out" every watch I can get my hands on doesn't draw the line at copyright and trademark infringement. I have a few reps, even reps of watches I have genuines of. I don't show them on the genuine forums or "pass" them off, (though I remember seeing a couple of Omega reps in the wrist checks over the last year, perhaps not here though) I'm a farm boy the cows don't care what watch I wear anyway. The genuine forums are full of people who are full of themselves and lots of "facts" but still have to take their g-shock to k-mart to get the battery changed or into ben bridge to get the bracelet sized... The replica community is far more technically orientated, interested in mods, hands on tinkering etc. It has been an interesting back door into the manufacturing and parts end of the hobby and has provided a wealth of materials to work on and learn from without me personally having to pay my share of someone elses billion dollar advertising budget. I have yet to find a place in the mainstream forums for a guy who bought a handfull of tools and taught himself how to take a 2824 apart. I think I just gave my self an idea for a watch website..... I realize the rest of you don't buy watches just to take them apart so I forgive you for your high standards. goofy |
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Crue4 3T WIS 
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I have to echo many of the points in Olde Crows post.. while it certainly is up to each individual to choose his choice on this matter.. I see nothing wrong with buying a cheap watch (replica) ... taking it apart, learning the ins and out of the movt', do it yourself modifications... grab some second hand parts to modifiy and fix... grab a relume mix and give it a go... screw it up... order a few sterile dials and hands, try again... and eventually put it all back together (hoping it runs right and looks decent) put the case back on and admire with pride the things you learned, the things you messed up, the things next time you will do differently, and have something to discuss with other watch-aholics about the process... Something that I have just started to do for fun, and it is just that... fun... I think many WIS have paid quite a penny to folks like Kent Parks, Duarte, Bill Yao, and Jack to do this for them. |
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rare m5 3T WIS
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I have worked in a several Copyright Infringement cases in the past. Nothing good ever come out of owning a replica watche. Seriously, If I see you wearing a replica, automatically you lose my respect. Period. It's a integerity and suitablility issue for me. You can give me thousands of execuses, they are illegal, period. Those people sell them because consumers continue to buy them. Once again, it doesn't matter how you justify it, still a federal violation. You guys are smart enough to know all types of movements out there. I have learned so much from you guys. You serious need to buy a replica to see its movement or modify it? I'm going to go rob a bank, just to see how the police would respond to a bank robbery. I'm pretty sure the police would let me go when I told them my reason. Don't buy replica watches. Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2007 10:26 am by rare m5 |
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KenC Admin
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OldeCrow wrote: This topic is a lot like the "Are you gay" check box on your enlistment papers.. Crow...a whole new perspective that I had never even thought of, although, I'm still not sure I could do it...ate the core, I would still be supporting an activity I don't condone! |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Damn!....I knew I was doing something wrong!! I should have beeen buying them to take apart!...WTH was I thinking!  ...all kidding aside but I can think of quite a few watch brands one could buy for a lot less than the cost of a replica to take apart and educate themselves in watchmaking....I have plenty of Invictas I use for that purpose why ruin a good replica!  |
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Crue4 3T WIS
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rare m5 wrote: I have worked in a several Copyright Infringement cases in the past. Nothing good ever come out of owning a replica watche. You certainly are entitled to your opinion... but I have a guess that you would have to lose a lot of respect to MANY in the watch community if ever owning a rep was the criteria.. I think many WIS have owned one at some point in their hobby... btw, if you read the US Customs site, I think you will also find some interesting inclusion material on "grey market" items as well.. also I don't currently own a replica watch, so I guess you can still respect me. |
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mjl4321 3T WIS
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I may be wrong, but 'gray market' does not mean the same thing as replica. Certainly in the UK, grey (not the spelling ;-) ) market means an authentic item but distributed through unofficial or unauthorized (used a 'z' just for you guys) channels. And, if it's commonly accepted for WIS to own replicas then I guess we are a different and much more diverse group than I had thought. Passion has to come with integrity. Crue4 wrote: rare m5 wroteYou certainly are entitled to your opinion... but I have a guess that you would have to lose a lot of respect to MANY in the watch community if ever owning a rep was the criteria.. I think many WIS have owned one at some point in their hobby... btw, if you read the US Customs site, I think you will also find some interesting inclusion material on "grey market" items as well.. also I don't currently own a replica watch, so I guess you can still respect me. |
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Crue4 3T WIS
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mjl4321 wrote: I may be wrong, but 'gray market' does not mean the same thing as replica. Certainly in the UK, grey (not the spelling ;-) ) market means an authentic item but distributed through unofficial or unauthorized (used a 'z' just for you guys) channels. style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"I know the difference b/n grey market and replica, but I was simply referring to the US customs website says a few things about grey market items whether they are legal or not to bring into our country as well... If your bored, and read the code, it seems that if you try to enter the country with either, it could be confiscated... just playing both sides... guess you missed me saying that I personally do not own any replicas... but I certainly would not "look down" on someone that owns a replica. style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"Personally I don't look at replicas any different from a "watch" standpoint (ethics aside) as I would a ebay "homage" or Alpha... sorry they each are what they are, a replica is a replica, a cheap chinese homage is a cheap chinese homage (made by the same folks in the same factory with the same tools and same counterfeiting owners) ... I enjoy watches and own a watch for my personal reasons.. I hope each person who loves watches buys what they like, and enjoys them whether it is an Invicta, Militare Marina homage, Grey Market Seiko, Hubolt Big Bang Replica, or genuine Rolex..... I try not to pass judgement of folks, but hey that is just me... style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8" |
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Crue4 3T WIS
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canadajo wrote: I'll never buy another rep. I didn't like the process, the guilt or the way I feel about the peice. I think this is an echo of my sentiments... I have owned 2 in the past, and honestly never wore them b/c I simply didn't like how I personally felt wearing them but they were nice to look at and dream, and nice to take apart and put back together.. As far as the whole "legality" issue... how many of us had not buckled our seat belt before we were down the road a bit... how many have exceed the speed limit, how many had a beer before we were 21, how many have used a fake ID to enter a bar before being legal age, how many have had bit of moonshine, how many have done a rolling stop at a stop sign... ? Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2007 02:47 pm by Crue4 |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Watch the video in this thread link Crue and maybe you will have a bit more insight as to where replicas are made. http://www.timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=8422&forum_id=1 |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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There isn't any moral high ground to be found around here. People frequently make the mistake of thinking that their moral compass points in the correct direction when discussing replicas and this leads to the topic degrading rapidly. The important thing to remember about your moral compass is that it only points in a streight line when you don't konw how lost you are! If you think Its OK to go down to Wall Mart and fill your cart to the top with Human rights violations, Industrial espionage, child and slave labor violations, Industrial waste and polution violations (otherwise known as "Made in China") goods and then draw the line at replica watches you are sadly mistaken. Copyright and trademark law was inteded to protect an individual so that he might profit from the fruits of his labor ie inventions intelectual propertly rights etc. And it was intended to protect him from other individuals and more importantly corporations who would otherwise just steal it and mass produce it! Do I think it's ok for China to just do whatever the hell they want.. no but they are in the process of committing mass suicide by industrial polution and waste so I am pretty sure they will get what is coming to them. Certainly even corporations are entitled to some level of protection but it's people like D. Freemont who copyright and trademark law was intended to protect and it's corporations like Rolex and Swatch and Richmont that the copyright and trademark law was intended to protect D. Freemont from. You will have to excuse me from not crying when billion dollar corporations who are often guilty of the same thing cry when someone is stealing their goodies. Trademark and copyright are the least of the reasons why you shouldn't be buying a replica and for the more important reasons I listed above we are all guilty by the fact that we are all participating in this conversation on a keyboard made in China. You want to talk about respect in the same sentence as replicas look me in the eye and tell me the only thing from China you own is the replica on your wrist! That guy has my respect at least what little I have to go around. Oscar if you have some Invicta's with 7750's you are willing to sell me for 200.00 shipped you know were I live. Until then I would prefer the replica with the Chinese 7750 which other than price is exactly the same as the Swiss and is much more forgiving on my pocket book when I screw it up. It’s only been in the last six months that the Chinese 7750’s have become common enough to buy in Germanese models on eBay but a used rep with the Chinese 7750 is still cheaper. Replicas are representative of bigger problems that you can't solve just by not buying replicas it doesn't mean its OK to buy them but I'm going to hell for much more serious reasons than buying a replica so I sleep just fine. The short and honest answer is I don't think replicas are OK but I own a couple in spite of my feelings. Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2007 05:40 pm by OldeCrow |
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Crue4 3T WIS
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oagaspar wrote: Watch the video in this thread link Crue and maybe you will have a bit more insight as to where replicas are made. Certainly was informative, but nothing I didn't expect.. I suspect many of the "chinese made cases and watches are made by similar means" Last edited on Mon Oct 1st, 2007 08:06 pm by Crue4 |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Crow you know as well as I know Invicta has made maybe 2 watches using the 7750 so make another excuse to justify your means :D I knew this subject would turn into this when it 1st got posted and I let it go knowingly but I honestly wanted to see who would come out to play!....I have to admit some of the pro rep comparisons and analogies are far beyond what I even expected.. and Crue I have no idea what you are talking about at all! |
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Crue4 3T WIS
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Prob better to let this topic just die... really not a big deal... heck I don't even own a replica.. |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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Always good to discuss as long as it stays civil. ;) For you never know whose eyes are watching. :cool: |
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OldeCrow 3T WIS
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oagaspar wrote: Crow you know as well as I know Invicta has made maybe 2 watches using the 7750 so make another excuse to justify your means :D I knew this subject would turn into this when it 1st got posted and I let it go knowingly but I honestly wanted to see who would come out to play!....I have to admit some of the pro rep comparisons and analogies are far beyond what I even expected.. and Crue I have no idea what you are freakin' taliking about at all! I don't need excuses or justifications like I already said I sleep fine but you just proved my point, the Chinese 7750 remians a valueable learning tool for me and the cheapest place I have been able to find the Chinese 7750 is in replicas. When the Germanese ones come down a bit more in price they will make suitable substitutes for the replicas but until then.... I think it would be more suitable to call my position a "don't care" rather than "Pro" It's not that everybody is wrong and I am right, clearly that would be silly it's just that the real tragedy behind replicas is the same problem that legitimate goods from Asia represent but it's easier to get all self righteous about replicas and parrot copyright trademark blah blah blah and pretend we are not all guilty of contributing to the real problems western gluttony has created for the rest of the word. I guess my point is clearly it's not legal and I disagree on how "wrong" it is by degrees not in principal. If you want to be indignant and go all "Onward Christian Solder" by all means go for it but you could pick a better fight! Crue , there is more than one Enzo in the watch community. I understand the one who makes the ENZO's we see here is a different Enzo than in the rep community. I believe that is where your confusion comes from. If I am just completely wrong and replicas really are the despicable root of all evil I would love to hear the reasons why, I can be persuaded! |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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I enjoy these types of threads because it allows the members to voice their opinions and Like Skip says as long as it stays civil it is all good  This subject has long been kept in the closet and needs to be brought out ....I know where Crow is coming from and in some way it is a testament to where the current situtaion with watch movements and huge conglomerites who are buying up the little guy are headed imo!,is buying a rep the solution? I don't know but it is an option for many....surprising to some who are starting out but most of the brands out there are nothing more than a rep with there logo on the dial...the difference is that these can be fully produced in a Asian shop whereas the rep is taken into homes as the video shows to be assembled by non experienced people ....now not all reps are done this way as there are those more experienced who buy them and take them to the next level with QC and adjustments but they cost ...not as much as an original but expensive for a fake.Bottom line is it is illegal however you look at it and had been taboo for as long as I have been collecting...there is a large number of collectors who only collect reps and they do not try to portray them as anything but reps so there is a place for them regardless of what many may think.....I will make my comparison to marijuana/pot...it is illegal as well but whole heck of alot of people still buy it and smoke it ...should it be legalized?,many believe it should....same goes with reps as long as no one gets hurt is the old adage....but let me ask...."Is someone getting hurt'? |
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steve6387 3T WIS 
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I haven't spent much time thinking about replicas and really appreciate this thread. oagaspar wrote: ..there is a large number of collectors who only collect reps and they do not try to portray them as anything but reps so there is a place for them regardless of what many may think Even in this case, wouldn't the original manufacturer who put the work and resources into their design still have a valid gripe? Whether I am a well known brand or a smaller company trying to make a mark..... If it's being manufactured and sold with my name on it and it's my design... aren't the motives of the buyer really irrelevant? --Steve |
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mjl4321 3T WIS
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(where's the emoticon with the smiley hitting it's head against a brick wall!?) Yes they would have a 'gripe'....because they are not getting a cent in revenue from the guy who sold the watch! And, their brand is getting devalued with every sale. They don't do this just so that they can see their name on the dial of a watch, they are running a business. steve6387 wrote:
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Yes Steve imho anyone who holds a patent and is ripped off has a legitimate gripe.Here is a interesting post made by a rep collector on a blog...I have removed the names to protect the innocent. I read an excellent post over at ...that outlines all the lies surrounding replica watches. This list was written by ... and I think it will be useful to anyone first discovering the replica watch industry. Many arrive here with minds polluted by scam sites and scam "review" sites: all peddlers of lies and deception. In an effort to help cleanse the noobs' minds of this filth, I propose the following 10 common and devious lies and misconceptions about replica watches, and the business of manufacturing and selling replica watches. Lie #1: The best replica watches are made in Switzerland, followed closely by Italy. -- This is the biggest lie of all. All replica watches are made somewhere in Asia, mostly China. Saying that replicas are made in Switzerland or Italy is a lie intended to extract more money from the ignorant. Lie #2: Replica watches are graded according to quality. C (or whatever) is the lowest and AAA+++ (or whatever) is the highest. -- Who decides what is "C" and what is "A"? The "International Replica Watch Governing Board"? Pure nonsense designed, again, to get more of your dollars. Lie #3: The movements in "Swiss made" replicas are identical to the genuine watch movements. 27 jewel movements are the best. -- (See Lie #1 for "Swiss made".) Far from the truth. Very few replica watch movements come from anywhere but China and any watchman can immediately tell it's not genuine. There are no 27 jewels movements in replica watches; only 25, 21, or 17. Lie #4: The best replicas are 99% true to the genuine and will even fool an Authorized Dealer (AD). -- Not true. While some may be close (picking a number is impossible) to the genuine, all replicas are flawed. Do you really think you can spend $200 or less and get a watch that's 99% identical to a $4,000-20,000 watch? As for fooling ADs, maybe. Common clerks are easily fooled, but seasoned ADs, upon close inspection, will know it's a replica. Lie #5: The gold on "Swiss grade" replicas is much higher than on other replicas. The crown, bezel, and mid links are solid gold and the full-gold replicas are 5-wrapped (or 6-wrapped, or whatever). -- While a few models have been shown to have solid gold mid links (Rolex replicas), the rest of the watch is gold plated or double or triple wrapped gold. ("Search" for threads on how this is done.) Lie #6: The best Rolex replicas are made with 904L grade steel. -- Big fat lie. Good replicas are made with 316L quality steel. Rolex is the only company that uses 904L steel and it costs 3 times as much as 316L (one reason why they are so expensive). Replicas are not made with 440 steel, either. Lie #7: Buying a replica watch is risky, but not if you use sellers from "Replica Review" sites. -- What most people don't know is the "review" sites are owned and operated by the people who run the sites they recommend--it's very incestuous. These "review" sites are clever and it's easy to get taken in by their lies. Lie #8: You can tell you're getting a good watch after a thorough examination of the web site. -- Please. If you think everything displayed on the web is true, you deserve to be fleeced. Scam sites lie about everything, from the quality of their goods to their pledge to make sure every customer is happy. Many even post pictures of genuine watches, (Look for pictures where the watch hands are set at "10:10." Pictures of genuine watches seen in advertisements are always set to "10:10.") but send you junk. Lie #9: Picking a good seller will always result in getting a good watch, one I won't have trouble with. -- We wish. Quality control in replica watch factories is hit-and-miss, but mostly shoddy. One batch may be great while the next produces watches that are DOA. (Remember, making replica watches is illegal, even in China. Replica watch "factories" are usually small operations that can be easily moved or hidden from prying authorities.) What is true, though, is a good dealer will want to protect his/her reputation and will fix whatever is wrong. Lie #10: Paying by COD is the best way to get the cheapest price. Plus, I can examine my watch before paying the courier to make sure I get what I paid for. -- A really dumb thing to do and a huge red flag that you're dealing with a true scammer. They want cash because they know you'll scream foul to your credit card company the moment you see the junk you just paid $1,000 for. One final point. Remember, replica watches are counterfeit goods. While it is not illegal to purchase or possess replica watches in most countries, it is illegal to sell them. Keep this in mind when using PayPal or communicating with credit card companies. |
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NANDO-FERDZ 3T WIS
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Why some people are buying replica watches? Some reasons... - They like the brand/design but they couldn't afford the price - They like the brand/design and can afford the price but they do not want to spend that much for a watch - They want to fool other people including themselves=) - To play around - For curiousity reason What else??? |
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enmed 3T WIS
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OldeCrow wrote: I don't need excuses or justifications like I already said I sleep fine but you just proved my point, the Chinese 7750 remians a valueable learning tool for me and the cheapest place I have been able to find the Chinese 7750 is in replicas. That might be the ONLY good reason for buying a replica instead of a homage, NOT a good reason for those who just wear the watch. But after playing around with the watch, would you keep the dial with the counterfeit brand logo? Sure you could not get a "naked" chinese 7750 then? Or even a swiss one? http://cgi.ebay.it/ETA-VALJOUX-7750-CHRONOGRAPH-WATCH-MOVEMENT-NEW-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ230177723468QQihZ013QQcategoryZ10324QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ;) |
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TO Allen 3T WIS
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Have a friend who I haven't seen in years. His father had a real Rolex and a copy. He would normally wear the fake Rolex in case he was ever robbed. His son asked him if he would feel any better if he was shot and killed and he was only wearing his fake Rolex. Go for the real deal and enjoy it. If you can't fly first class, don't fly at all. Just my $0.02. |
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