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glock24 3T WIS
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It was suggested in another thread of mine that my inbound Octo contained an Asian ETA movement. It is advertised as an ETA 2846. I don't understand the difference between Asian and Swiss ETA movements. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks |
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KenC Admin 
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To my understanding, an Asian ETA movement can be several things: 1) a cheap movement made on Asian equipment that replicates the ETA movement, or, 2) A movement made in Asia on equipment supplied by the Swiss by people who were trained by the Swiss. 3) Swiss made parts assembled in Asia. 4) Asian made parts assembled in Asia on Swiss ETA back plates or ebauches. |
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Upside 3T WIS 
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Well that just opens the door right up doesn't it! So what do I get if I use metal from India to make parts in Switzerland and Germany, assembled in Canada but cased in the USA??:? |
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hucky 3T WIS 
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You get corporate business as usual :shock: |
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glock24 3T WIS
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Hmm . . . so is there a way to confirm or deny if a watch (any watch) contains a Swiss made ETA? Last edited on Tue Dec 18th, 2007 11:51 am by glock24 |
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Dookie 3T WIS
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glock24 wrote: Hmm . . . so is there a way to confirm or deny if a watch (any watch) contains a Swiss made ETA?i think the asians constantly coming up with new stuff everyday.its realy hard to keep up on wat is real or not. Ultimately the only real way to test is on the timing machine. Imo they can copy all the aesthetics they want to make it look authentic but they cant replicate the performance. yourock.gifyourock.gif Chris Last edited on Tue Dec 18th, 2007 01:26 pm by Dookie |
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Upside 3T WIS
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hucky wrote: You get corporate business as usual :shock: heh heh heh;) |
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romano 3T WIS 
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Not so sure that timing would even work. We are talking about an ETA movement here which are essential mass produced by Swatch group. With good tooling and commitment to quality anyone can produce a mechanism that will run within the tolerances . I'm just not certain that the lower end standard ETAs would perofrm any better than a well made Asian copy. After all with a little help from a few spies and friends in Washington the Chinese have a manned space program. |
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Eric L. 3T WIS 
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"Asian ETA" is a common term used when discussing replica watches - it is basically a Chinese copy of an ETA movement. Last I checked, these perform ok but definitely break down earlier than genuine ETA movements. "Swiss ETA" refers to a genuine ETA movement. As ETA is a Swiss company, they can manufacture the movements anywhere they want, including Asia, provided the quality control meets a certain standard. If you are considering a rep, get the one with the gen ETA movement - when the watch falls apart (the crown threads, or the HRV falls off) at least you will have an ETA movement you can use somewhere else. |
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Wesman Guest
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Glock24: While the term "Asian ETA" movement is a loose term and definately open to a variety of definitions, in your case, there is no need for too much special concern. Octo is a very reputable company. The ETA movement inside your watch is an authentic ETA movement. It is not any sort of replica, reproduction, or unauthorized copy. It is, however, an ETA movement that is authorized and designed by ETA to be manufactured in Asia (China) and distributed to the Asian market. From all reports, it is made to the exact mechanical specifications as any other ETA movement of its type and calibre, it is just made at a cheaper overall production cost and at a much closer distribution point to its ultimate use. One of the signs that it is an Asian-produced ETA movement is that it will be colored in gold, as you will see when you get your watch. You will also see that it is officially signed and stamped ETA. There has been some discussion and debate whether these ETA movements produced in and made for the Asian market are of equivalent quality as the non-Asian market equivalents. All I can say is that the jury remains out so far and there has been no overwhelming evidence to end the debate. I would be very surprised if your movement is not within specs. when it arrives. Hope this helps. Last edited on Tue Dec 18th, 2007 08:19 pm by |
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glock24 3T WIS
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Yes, that clears it up for me. Thank you Wesman |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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Wesman wrote: This may have held true except Octo along with many other Swiss companies that went out of bussiness becuase of the Quartz Revolution in the 70's were purchased and ressurected by an Asian bussinessman a few years ago and after selling off all the NOS watches that were left in stock has now been producing nothing but reproductions;)....and Asian eta is a copy of a Swiss eta plain and simple made in Asia using Asian parts....Swatch/ETA had a Chinese facility that assemebled genuine eta movements but was closed this yearwatch2.gifWith the cost of both genuine and Asian etas today being triple the cost over a year ago I would highly doubt a watch being sold NIB for $129. would have a genuine eta....you can't buy the movement for that price today(perhaps a 21j 2846) and that it doesn't hack and has 25j is another reason for doubt...not sayinf one isn't made but I never saw 1 :?...read the vendors description closely and you will not read anywhere that they are genuine....just a lot of possibles maybe's  Glock24: While the term "Asian ETA" movement is a loose term and definately open to a variety of definitions, in your case, there is no need for too much special concern. Octo is a very reputable company. The ETA movement inside your watch is an authentic ETA movement. It is not any sort of replica, reproduction, or unauthorized copy. It is, however, an ETA movement that is authorized and designed by ETA to be manufactured in Asia (China) and distributed to the Asian market. From all reports, it is made to the exact mechanical specifications as any other ETA movement of its type and calibre, it is just made at a cheaper overall production cost and at a much closer distribution point to its ultimate use. One of the signs that it is an Asian-produced ETA movement is that it will be colored in gold, as you will see when you get your watch. You will also see that it is officially signed and stamped ETA. |
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Wesman Guest
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Well, the plot thickens. One of my references is the PMWF Watch Shop. The Octo's that are being sold there are all equipped with ETA movements. Reto includes a nice discussion at the top of the "Octo" section regarding some of the points that you mention. He is a very vigilant watch enthusiast and would not sell any watch with any kind of fake ETA movement. I have a Croton 300 meter Super "C" with one of the faux-gold plated ETA 2836 movements (assembled in China) and it runs right along within specs. and is stamped ETA. The watch was less than $200 new. Sandoz also uses Asian-assembled ETA movements I believe. I don't think ETA would tolerate any kind of fake signed/stamped movements for very long. I could be wrong, but OCTO and Sandoz and Croton would have been sued and shut-down by now I would think. Last edited on Wed Dec 19th, 2007 12:49 am by |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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I have no idea what your level of WISdom is but 1st of all the Croton SuperC has a Japanese Miyota movt. in it in the SS /pvd versions that sold for $199/$399. and you are talking about a made for TV watch.....Octo and Sandoz went out of bussiness in 1970 era and were purchased and resurrected by a Asian businessman a few years ago....both being made in Asia today(Phillipines what I have been told)....read the addy closely or just copy it here and show me where it says it is definetly Swiss Made?...it is also advertised as a 25j eta....the eta2846 is a 21j movement not 25 and it sells for $89.by itself right now so at $129. for the watch what exactly do you think the vendor payed for it from the dealer? if it is NOS is one thing but reproduction is another imho The day of the Swiss Made/Movt' watch for $199. are over and the Swiss Federation will be voting in April 08' to toughen the existing Swiss Made law so that these guys can't slip through the cracks anymorehand6.gif....btw every replica manufacturer claims Swiss Made and Swiss eta and stamped eta/Swiss Made as well...do you believe them? |
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Wesman Guest
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The Croton Super "C" I have is the Rose Gold 300 meter Sapphire Crystal ETA Automatic movement. They were definitely indeed made and sold by Croton. They were available many places, including ShopNBC not more than 7 or 8 months ago. I certainly don't want to get into a knock-down, drag-out battle over this. But, again, I don't think Reto would be selling OCTO's with fake movements. Just for clarification, is that what you are saying? Do you really think that he would traffic in fake movements and misrepresent his watches in this way? Should this be brought to his attention? With all due respect, Reto has been around for decades and has owned and worked on many Swiss Movements. I trust his descriptions and he has never once been known to misrepresent a watch. You mentioned that the ETA 2846 movement is a 21 jewel movement and not a 25 jewel movement. Let me refer you to the Pilot Retro Automatic Ref. 6554 by Zeno-Watch Basel. They use a 25 jewel 2846 and surely no one would accuse this of being fake. By the way, the 2846 was also made as a 17 jewel movement by ETA as well - not commonly known however. Last edited on Wed Dec 19th, 2007 03:20 am by |
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glock24 3T WIS
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Here is the information I considered before making my Octo purchase. The question now obviously is the validity of this information; http://www.pmwf.com/cgi-bin/SalesForum/webbbs_config.cgi?noframes;read=81468 http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/WATCHSALES/OCTOSalesTable.htm |
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Crue4 3T WIS 
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Just know that there are Asian copies of eta that are stamped with the eta logo out there in bunches... just because it is stamped eta doesn't mean it is eta. |
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KenC Admin
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pmwf is, to the best of my knowledge, very reputable. The facts are there and, while he doesn't guarantee it, the reasonable assumption is, by the forum owner, that the Swiss Made is legit. Note that it is a non-hacking movement. |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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The Croton SuperC Rose Gold did indeed come with an eta but it did not sell for under $199. as you claim Wesman....and they only sold on Slopnbc....unless some found their way to TJMaxx!:D 2 Conflicting addys for the same watch and 2 different movements?!.... the one on PMWF clearly states it was taken from the Pronto page and not the words of the owner....Pronto is an Asian watch co. of the same caliber as these Octo's that are surfacing...no where does the seller guarantee these are truly Swiss Made nor have genuine eta movements nor that they are NOS....they both just presume based on the assumption that the manufacturer is reputable and abiding by the Swiss Fed. standards and regulations....all I am saying is buyer beware:P Many of us purchased the Mido Commander for the same price and lower that were advertised as NOS a couple years ago,but since then many are resurfacing and being sold as re-productions out of the Phillipines...these original NOS versions arrived in the original blue sealant applied to the entire watch while stored and original carriage...they were representitive of the era....a couple members even ordered extra links through Mido so a feeling of ease was felt as these being the original article;) In no way is anyone stating that PMWF is not a reputable source.I have the utmost respect for both the forum and owner as 3T has always cross-posted with them as well as allowing links....and at $129. the Octo may be a very good buy imho regardless of originhand6.gif No one has called the movement a fake but the possibility of it being Asian....which to me is the best alternative to the Swiss eta because it was the Swiss who trained the Asians in watch-making to begin with and they have had years of experience in cloning the movement:D |
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KenC Admin
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oagaspar wrote: The Croton SuperC Rose Gold did indeed come with an eta but it did not sell for under $199. as you claim Wesman....and they only sold on Slopnbc....unless some found their way to TJMaxx!:D 2 Conflicting addys for the same watch and 2 different movements?!.... the one on PMWF clearly states it was taken from the Pronto page and not the words of the owner....Pronto is an Asian watch co. of the same caliber as these Octo's that are surfacing...no where does the seller guarantee these are truly Swiss Made nor have genuine eta movements nor that they are NOS....they both just presume based on the assumption that the manufacturer is reputable and abiding by the Swiss Fed. standards and regulations....all I am saying is buyer beware:P Ah, yes...good ol' TJ Maxx!!!yourock.gif |
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