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e.avery 3T WIS 
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This is the choice that I made and why. I could not find one pack that would fit all situations so I broke my needs down and purchased 2 packs that fill my needs. The first is a Kelty Super Tioga which is a large external frame pack that has a proven track record. It is a good value at the less than $150 price point shipped to you. The second is an internal framed pack the Kelty Falcon 2850. This pack will be a good option for the Military and the civilian customers that need a very versatile pack that has the expandability through the Molle system. This is not a cheep pack, but offers a lot for its size. I wish I could find the receipt, but it was one of those times I through it in my pocket and tossed it in the trash. I chose Kelty from experience. My wife carried a Kelty pack for 18 years and it is still in perfect shape. She is much better at listeneing than I am, and got the message to limit the amount of dirt that you get on fabrics during wilderness survival training, but that is another story. My North Face pack that was made in the U.S. did not fair quite as well.   Her 18 year old pack that was made before the common use of polymer buckles and fasteners. The metal fastener on the waist belt is a throw back to a very different time for sure.   |
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JCrad 3T WIS
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My son has an external frame Jansport that has several broken cotter pin connectors. Other than that it is fine. I'm borrowing a friend's REI internal frame for our trip to Philmont Scout Ranch in June. Can you recommend a good lightweight sleeping bag that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Seems external frames are falling out of fashion, do you agree? |
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zippofan 3T WIS 
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You are going to Philmont?! hand6.gifhand6.gifhand6.gif I am jealous :) We were just talking about packs last night in preparation for all of our camping/hiking trips this summer with the Scouts. I bought cheapos for my older son and I awhile back, (which of course didn't hold up) and now I need to get another for my younger son who is crossing over from Cubs this year. I am going to look a little closer at Kelty. I like that Falcon. Cheers, Griff |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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This one from SierraDesigns wold be a good one to have for 40 Deg. F. I believe it is still $80. I got some Kelty bags for around $50 from Sierra Trading Post or Campmore I believe. They are more comfortable than my down wonder bag from Marmont. The synthetic insulation is nice to lay on since I have gotten older. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/319,75294_Sierra-Designs-45-F-Shavano-Sleeping-Bag-Down-.html Get on Sierra Trading Posts mailing list they have great discounts. I will post links for discounts when I get them on this thread. The Framed Packs take an additional set of skills and tools to manufacture, and peoples tasts have changed. |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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This is the Kelty that I got for everyone, not light but will keep you warm even when wet. http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___41619 |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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This is all I have now from Sierra Trading Post |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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It is late and my computer in the States is acting up, but here it goes.  |
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KenC Admin 
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Since 1969, my idea of camping is an Embassy Suites with no room service after mid-night...roughing it is a Holiday Inn with vending machines!!!  |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS 
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KenC wrote: Since 1969, my idea of camping is an Embassy Suites with no room service after mid-night...roughing it is a Holiday Inn with vending machines!!! LOL :D with me being in the shape I'm in now that will be it for me from now on too Ken. :) And I use to love being in the out doors. But your way can be fun too. But I need more than vending machines. Give me a good cafe or fast food place at least. :cool: |
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murphy j 3T WIS 
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Skipdawg wrote: Give me a good cafe or fast food place at least. :cool: I was thinking hotel bar myself:D. |
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Rhino-Ranch Guest
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Kelty Falcon looks real nice... I like the pockets on the waist belt, good for ammo, handgun and granola bars. Take a look at OSPREY, and Pacific Outdoors Churchcrist. Lately, I am thinking of building a pack with a roll-top waterproof bag, 'cause there are plenty of times, that I've got to swim or ford a river or stream. Jim Montana, USA |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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The pockets on the Falcon are Maxpedition and so is the pocket on the back. Had to ford allot of rivers in South America back in the day. It was fun. SAS four man teams are something you could look up and see the methods they use. I have no idea if you can find that type of info on the web, but it is worth a shot. The team consists of 2 snipers and 2 spotters pulling 2 shifts for extended recon. |
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Ablejack 3T WIS 
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As an Appalachian Trail thruhiker I opt for much lighter equipment. I currently carry a small Granite Gear or a Gregory G series. Both of these packs weigh in at less than three pounds. A base-loaded pack (no food or water) weighing over twenty or so pounds is fine for camping but not really suited for backpacking. Basically if you spend most of your time hiking and you travel ten to twenty miles a day, go light. If you hike only a few miles a day you may want to carry more luxuries for your campsite. It is also safer to carry less. You are much more agile and stable with a light pack (and light shoes) which cuts down on fatigue, and stumbling. Of course there's also the obvious stresses on your muscular/skeletal system. Most experts advise not to carry more than 20% of your body weight under any circumstance, even if you are fit. I really don't mean to rant, just trying to be helpful. There are also many ultralight hikers (Ray Jardine, famously) who profess severe weight restrictions that demand more hearty souls than mine. These guys often carry no tent and move swiftly along trails. Basically, however you do it, Get Out There! |
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zippofan 3T WIS
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KenC wrote: Since 1969, my idea of camping is an Embassy Suites with no room service after mid-night...roughing it is a Holiday Inn with vending machines!!!But Ken, what if your guys want to join Scouts? The BSA is always looking for good leaders to put in "just one hour a week" :D Until they joined, my idea of camping was the same as you, LOL. This summer I have Assistant Scoutmaster outdoor weekend next month, OA Spring Ordeal in June to seal our bond, Gettysburg for a weekend in late June or possibly July, and a week at the "Pond", Scout camp in August. Then at the end of August and middle of September, 2 weekends for Wood Badge training. That's just the Boy Scouts and doesn't count the Cub Scout events Cheers, Griff |
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Rhino-Ranch Guest
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I agree -- we do some extensive hiking out here in the Bridger, Gallatin, and Tobacco Rt Mountains... starting out with a pack that weighs over 5 pounds empty is not a good idea. At the same time, I recommend a pack that has good suspension, hip belt, and compression straps. GRANITE GEAR is excellent. OSPREY makes some great packs. I have a bomber KELTY pack somewhere that is absolutely beautiful, and the best grade of black ballistic nylon. I prefer toploading, less weight and no zippers to fail, and you can really stuff a toploader. This summer I am hoping to get a waterproof pack that can be floated down stream in kayak, raft, or swim. Packs that are made for hunting or "military" look seem to be heavier, and carry a serious $$$ premium for the camo look. |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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Light is better but I carry weapons that weigh in at 30 lbs. then I have to have things that keep me alive and also equipment to collect data. If you are going to sell a system to DOD than you must test it. If you are doing this as a hobby then stay light, my packs have to work. |
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Rhino-Ranch Guest
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In that case-- take a look at MYSTERY RANCH BACKPACKS made in Bozeman, MT.... designer Dana Gleason, formerly owner / designer of DANA DESIGNS. MYSTERY RANCH is built to US Govt Specs... designed with ballistic nylon, removable pouches, serious heavy hauling. e.avery wrote: Light is better but I carry weapons that weigh in at 30 lbs. then I have to have things that keep me alive and also equipment to collect data. If you are going to sell a system to DOD than you must test it. |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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I will take a look at it. I can change the form factors of the equipment to adjust to a few different packs. Thanks |
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e.avery 3T WIS
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To anyone that is interested in turning there creative talents to the Defense Industry a good place to start would be the DARPA Agency. I went back to college to become an Engineer so I could design systems that work. http://www.darpa.mil/index.html |
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JCrad 3T WIS
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Back from Philmont! 62 miles in 10 days. Used a house brand top loader from REI. We had a lot of troop gear so were carrying around 40 pounds. Temps were from 40-90, sun , hail, rain, clouds fantastic night skies. Pix to follow... |
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stormin13 3T WIS 
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Welcome back JCrad. Northern New Mexico is an absolutely gorgeous place to go camping, hunting fishing and etc. I've spent many, many days and nights in the mountains of New Mexico. I know I'm a little late with my "2 cents" but here goes. It seems to me that you received a lot of great advice from the 3T folks earlier, sorry I was not in the original thread. I'm a huge fan of Osprey packs and I saw that Rhino-Ranch suggested one to you, great packs!!!hand6.gifhand6.gif My other suggestion is rather expensive but (IMHO) there is no better pack made for hauling any type load to include extremely heavy loads in comfort than Kifaru. Plus, the pack will last a lifetime if cared for properly. Try looking at Kifaru I think you'll be impressed with their products, here is their url: http://www.kifaru.net. As you'll see on their website they also make gear for the military. Please take my word on this - they make gear for some of our nations most elite military members, which implies Kifaru gear must be perfect. perfect.gifI would love to see some of your pictures from Philmont, cheers. Norm (Stormin) |
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toxicavenger 3T WIS 
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I 2nd the Osprey packs! |
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JCrad 3T WIS
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Yep, saw a lot of Osprey gear. Since my pack will be going back to its owner now, I'll keep them in mind for when it is purchase time. |
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JCrad 3T WIS
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 The Tooth of Time July 8th, 2009 |
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stormin13 3T WIS
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JCrad wrote:
Great looking photograph you took JCrad! hand6.gif Have fun picking out your new backpack and then breaking it in, cheers. Stormin |
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