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| Security, surveillance and automation | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 04:24 am |
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1st Post |
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IanM 3T WIS 
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Hi all I hope this is not inappropriate even for the off-topic stuff from the forum. If it is - please bump it. One of my companies here in Australia is the distributor for a wired/wireless domestic alarm that combines security (an alarm), surveillance (remote and local camera view and record capability) and automation (lights, fans, electric blinds, appliances etc) in one device. I am looking for one exclusive distributor in the US, and one for Canada. But be that as it may - I would be interested to know from members who it is that they would call if you wanted to buy a new alarm for your home or business, and how you expect that it would be installed. Would you go to Home Depot, Lowes or someone else to buy the main part of the alarm system, and then go to someone else to buy your cameras? Would you want to instal it yourself or get someone to do it for you? Would you call your electrician and buy whatever alarm system he or she recommended? Do you research alarms online and track them doen wherever you can find them? It is just a bit of an information leg-up for me to prepare myself with some actual US consumer ideas before I hit the US later this year. I will be talking with the stores mentioned above, and some of the bigger security companies. I promise that I am only after ideas - you will never get an unsolicited e-mail from me! Would be interested in your opinions! PM me if you like and I will give you my work e-mail address to avoid loading up the site. Thanks! IanM
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 05:03 am |
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2nd Post |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS 
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Well if I ever put anything like that in my home I would do allot of research first to see how effective the units were and cost comparisons. I worked in the upper end of private security for awhile when I got out of the navy and one thing that annoyed me with such things were all the freaking false alarms from pets, kids or bad weather. So to convince me it would have to be a rather incredible product in the first place. I have seen like units advertised here. I think Radio Shack carries a like product now.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 05:42 am |
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3rd Post |
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IanM 3T WIS
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Heya Skip - I hear you. The only thing that peeves me off more than false triggers is the money the monitoring companies charge to send their cars and security guys to the house only to discover that a moth is your "intruder". I agree that the product has to be pretty good to get any market at all. The one you mention in Radio Shack is probably by X-10. I reckon the product I distribute is like that one on steroids, has a ton of additional features already integrated into one single package, is stable, compatible with Windows, allows the home owner to monitor their own home and automate devices over the internet, and it actually works! Not the sort of thing you would necessarily go to Radio Shack to buy - but I am prepared to have a think about it. I know it is a tough sell, Skipdawg, but that is why it sells here and in other parts of the world. After spending a fortune on its development, and with about another 200k to go to develop again for the US market - it will be spectacular - I can't afford to go to market with a dud. As always, Skip, I am interested to hear your views - you don't pull punches and I like that. Its interesting that you didn't ask the price. Let's just say that in a world where home automation and security can be bl**dy expensive, I am a big fan of being cost efective! Cheers and thanks! IanM
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 07:39 am |
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4th Post |
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hucky 3T WIS 
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Ian I would be honored to ginny pig your system here in the US on my own home. There are alot of systems here in the US and some are good some are not but what lacks here in the US is homeowner awareness of systems. You can put a system in home depot and maybe out of 100 stores only 2 people who work in the electrical aisle know anything about your product, Lowes would be worse. I am a Builder here in California, my own home has been published in This Old House Twice, and Decorator Solutions once, Im wired for 7 cameras all RG 59 and power Home Ran into a laundry room power ready. You can see some of my wifes and my work here http://www.kitchenadvice.com Check it out. Good Luck Huck
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 09:02 am |
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5th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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The largest alarm/security company in the U.S is ADT and they deliver the goods imho....I wouldn't trust a home depot system or do it your self system without monitoring...in most big cities in the U.S you are lucky if a police cruiser would show up in 1 hour on a siren alarm...lol~....jmho.The best security is still a trained watch dog as any home alarm system can be beat easily.....many people install cheap locks on their homes thinking they will save money.....wrong! buy a good set of locks like Schlage but even then if you have something a thief wants they will get in:(...like I said DOG security or live in a small town where the only crime is the occasional domestic dispute or Dave's donkey got loose on the turnpike again 
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 09:12 am |
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6th Post |
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KenC Admin 
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I have used home security systems, including infra-red, motion detection, glass breakage and camera surveillance since 1990. I have used ADT (went bankrupt in the early 90's), Brinks and several smaller companies. Most alarms in the USA are sold by alarm companies and not in local hardware store, as then, you have to find your own monitoring company compatible witht he equipment you installed. I would imagine the key to success in that business (at least here) is to hook up with either one large or many independent alarm companies that provide monitoring. Most equipment, in the USA, is sold and installed at a minimum...the money is made in the monitoring contract. It is what we call the "Gillette" method...give the razors away and sell the blades. DISH and/or DirecTV Satellite TV are other examples of the theory.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 11:40 am |
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7th Post |
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Skipdawg 3T WIS
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Yea as Oscar stated ADT is big. 4 of my neighbors on the street have it. Allot of retired folks on the street and one behind me too. The gal behind me says I'm one of the blocks best deterrents. LOL :D Home owners insurance in most cases will give you a nice break too for having a security system.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 4th, 2007 11:08 pm |
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8th Post |
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IanM 3T WIS
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Hi gentlemen Please excuse the long response! I am really grateful that you all took time to respond, and every comment deserves an answer. Nothing beats getting some responses from people who are either in the game or who use the systems. ADT is big here, too. As are some other names you would be familiar with, like Signature Security, Chubb, Moss and a few others. Oscar, KenC and Skip - keep it coming - I need to establish the manner in which people look at buying, and I have already done some market research on some potential distributors. Neither I nor my business tackle something like this lightly, and the issue of brand awareness is an interesting one. Worldwide, most homeowners choose a company and not a brand of system. If, for example, you rang ADT, you will only get the alarm system made by their affiliated company, and ADT do not wish to offer innovative product. I see the issue differently - I would want to get consumers demanding my brand, and get it installed by qualified installers from reputable sellers. If any new entrant to the US market wanted to promote his or her own brand, then he or she is up against it, granted. But how else does one introduct innovation into a market without either using established sales and installation networks, or creating one's own? hucky - you are right that homeowner awareness is a heck of a problem, as is the training of both installation technicians (and - if I go that way, the in-store attendants as well). Training is not an issue, I have established how to do that in conjunction with the manufacturer. And hucky, you are a champion, thank you. I will definitely speak with you about testing a beta system in the US in your home somwewhere towards the end of this year, or early next year. I would be happy to offer a system up on the basis that your only payment to me will be to get back to me with no-holds-barred real life feedback on how it works, what you like and what you don't. I did the same thing in Australia with a like-minded guy who has been invaluable in sending both positive (and the occasional negative, during development phase, but now resolved) feedback. The manufacturers are professional and prompt. Because my company is the one with the rights to sell, it is also my responsibility to comply the units for each market. The manufacturers listen, they engineer and they get results. US FCC approval is a hurdle that will involve the engineering side there doing more work, but as with all big projects, ya gotta spend to make. The power going into the control board in the USA is different to the power used in other countries, and so the engineering has to start from scratch because of the electromagnetic energy the system would then produce being strictly regulated. Telecommunications requirements vary for every country in the world. Electrical safety is another matter -each country wants the box and components to undergo varied impact, fire retardance, power surge, lightning, interruption and potential electrocution tests, and all of this is to happen with a battery backup! As they say - if it was easy we would all do it... By the way - kitchenadvice.com is excellent and a testament to your skills and those of your good lady wife - congratulations! Skip - your point about monitoring is well taken. What I mean to say is that this system of ours will certainly keep calling the monitoring company if you want it to, but if you elect, it can be programmed to contact you first, and you can shut the inquiry down if you see on the camera feed over the internet that a moth is your burglar. Of course, if it is a real situation, you then get the system to contact the security company and they can deal with it. Insurance companies here look after you if you have a "compliant" monitored system - meaning one that has undergone testing from the certification authorities and which passes the telecoms, EMC and safety requirements. If you instal a complaint system here, most insurance companies will offer a discount of around 10% of the premium for your house and contents policy. We may be in different countries, but the similarities are amazing, aren't they. I appreciate the way you guys talk business and the way you do it. Please let me know any other feedback or thoughts you may have, 3Ters, it helps me a lot! Thank you! IanM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2007 11:31 pm |
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9th Post |
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IanM 3T WIS
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Hey hucky Please PM me and I will get some information to you. Cheers! IanM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2007 09:44 pm |
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10th Post |
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zippofan 3T WIS 
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I did my whole house with X-10, and once I found sources of noise on my power lines and eliminated it with filters and a circuit bridge it has been really reliable. I have been an electronics technician, now computer systems manager, plus my dad was an electrician and I learned how to wire a house when I was a kid. When we built our house I installed the X-10 equipment, including security sensors, alarm system and wireless cameras. The whole system is run from an older Mac (XTension software), macros, timed events etc. True, it doesn't have 3rd party monitoring, but it does call my in-laws who live across the street. If you knew my in-laws...they are better than the local PD as far as knowing what goes on at my house (for better and for worse ;-) ) I have been running it for 7 years now without a major glitch. I have had to replace 2 switches and one RF receiver but the components are pretty cheap. I like the Smarthome X10 compatible smart switches but they are much more expensive, that would cut into my watch money! I think a lot of consumer frustration with X-10 is because of power line noise. I have a noise meter and helped out a couple guys with their systems. At first they were ready to trash their systems, after eliminating noise they were really happy. I work with an electrician on side jobs, he specs the Lutron system which runs on a proprietary box, essentially Windows software. It's nice but big bucks. That's where I get some of my watch money :D I used to teach a home automation course for our Continuing Education department, but there hasn't been as much interest lately. Cheers, Griff
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2007 10:48 pm |
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11th Post |
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IanM 3T WIS
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Hi Griff Thanks for that information - it is invaluable to me. The noise problem is with several components on the board - most notably the telecommunications chip that is used, and the interference of electromagnetic emissions. That was one of the issues we dealt with and resolved here. Because both systems use power line carrier technology (but we use different lines - and, broadly speaking, the X-10 used the "noisy" line), there is a benefit to making the signal strong and clear to avoid any drama. When I first came across this system about 2 years ago, it was being made and sold in an un-certified environment. I chose to R&D the unit to make sure that the glitches were eliminated before I commenced selling the improved units in certified markets. That took time. And a whole lotta watch money, let me assure you! I woulde be interested to know if you are interested in having a look at my system, too and whether I should get you to look at it and have a good play with it at the same time as hucky. Phase 1 is to use the present system (not certified for the US) and discover the glitches. Phase 2 is reverse engineer any fixes and correct them at the software and hardware levels. Phase 3 is selling and that is going to be the fun part, because national US distributors are few and far between, and I want to tie myself to a distributor capable of either adding my unit to their existing sales bank, or to a retailer who can access qualified installers. It would be up to me to keep local stock and arrange education programs for the electricians nationwide. Big job, but it is gonna be worth it. Told you I wanted to move back to the US! The core components of my system are likely to retail for around $1000USD or less. Fitting and cameras extra. Wholesale is cheaper again. How does that stack up against the Lutron? From what I know of them, they offer lighting system control. Innovative for those who run such systems outside the scope of their alarm control boxes. My unit does it all in one. Identical results (without infinite dimming - my system is restricted to 6 preset resistances and therefore 6 different light levels) and all as a part of the initial package. In the wings are developments with access control, all wireless (portable) systems and personal alarms. But at the heart of the initial product release is the 3-in-one functionality. Oh - and my in-laws were exactly the same type of people as yours! I am divorced now so that problem doesn't exist - just the one where I try to get back to the financial point I was in before I was cleaned out! Ah well, she always did like the new Bentley... Let me know your e-mail address on a PM, Griff, and if you would like I will send you a unit to play with at the same time as I deal with the very kind hucky. The software on this unit is much more interactive and has broader capabilities than anything you have seen before. I expect to be able to get something to you guys before the end of the year. Thanks a million! Ian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2007 11:02 pm |
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12th Post |
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IanM 3T WIS
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KenC - I just read your response again and thought I would get back to you on a few points you made that really hit home with me. Your comment about linking up with one large or several small companies has been my biggest business decision with this product. Big companies who sell the additional services, do the installation using their own people, usually have their own monitoring company relationships. Fair enough. But they often only sell alarm systems made by themselves or by companies in which they have a financial interest. ADT is a good example of that. They are still big here in Australia. Also big is Signature Security - but they have one business here and a separate and completely unrelated business in Canada - neither is involved in any way with the other. Yep - margins are small at the wholesale distribution end. So as an international distributor, it is an issue of numbers and the quality of the people on the ground. I could establish a new business in competition with the big guys, or use the distribution and installation networks of existing retailers. Costs and potential profits give strong arguments for both alternatives and I am not yet resolved on which path to take. Lots of research and analysis to do yet. But I just wanted to thank you for your opinion - and for taking the time to write. Cheers and have a great day - IanM
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