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| Bronze Watch Recall | Rating: 
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10th, 2012 05:30 pm |
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85th Post |
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Johnny P Advisor 
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Hammerfjord wrote:Johnny P wrote: +2 For you guys, and gals that's reading this thread we need your input for the brass watch. Thank you! 
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2012 11:01 am |
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86th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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Zenton is also doing a recall for a case swap now,apparently they also fell victim,and are doing the right thing! ...seems 3 watch companies had no problem nor delay in knowing exactly what to do...no ifs,ands,or buts...return the watch and we will make good on a bronze case as advertised!....No 5-6 mos. wait,no cheap strap so you keep your brass watch,and definitely not continuing to sell the brass watch...which will further confuse WIS when it comes to the sales forums that end up with both the brass,and the bronze cased watches up FS with the same freekin' dial! 
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2012 02:34 pm |
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87th Post |
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Jeep99dad 3T WIS 
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I read that too about their Z42(OR 43)... sucks for them. Hoepfully they get the new xases replaced quickly for their clients... was tha model sold out or are they still making them?
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| Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2012 11:38 pm |
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88th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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WOW!...didn't see this one coming...NOT!...next up Olivier! As you know, we have been planning to start the exchange of your brass case with bronze parts in the period of July-Sep. This planning was based on the delivery date we agreed with the new case manufacturer. Everything on our side was ready to go and we planned to send you an email now with final instructions. However, last Friday we had to reject the final pre-production samples we received from our supplier. The parts did not meet our quality criteria. Earlier samples we received a while ago were OK. We have checked with some other manufacturers but already could predict the outcome. There is no way we will be able to get new parts manufactured in less than 5 months' time. We do not think it is realistic to ask you to wait that much longer. In the meantime our hopes of getting financial compensation for the wrongly delivered material from our old supplier vaporized. We learned the hard way that - even when you are right - it does not mean you always get what you are entitled to. So, faced with this new reality, we propose 4 alternatives. We hope that one of them is the best one for you in light of this new situation. If, however, you see still another option: please let us know and we will respond to it as soon as possible. OPTIONS: 1. You keep the watch, accepting a 15% discount on your next watch purchase (valid until June 2013) and a set of black/brown straps with stainless steel buckles, OR; 2. You keep the watch and accept a payment of $100 USD as compensation for delivering a brass instead of bronze case. Please allow up to 6 weeks to receive payment, OR; 3. You order a different Magrette watch and we will trade in the brass model as part-payment in the value of $285.00USD , OR; 4. You send back the watch, strap(s), roll-case, papers and box and we will pay back the original invoice amount after receiving back your watch. Please include your paypal or bank details (incl. IBAN/SWIFT info), date of purchase and number of the watch. Please allow up to 6 weeks to receive payment. Side note: we plan to offer the returned watches in our web shop as pre-owned with full warranty. If necessary we will brush the cases to like-new condition. Price will be $285 USD,-. We will have to do this to recoup our costs and are confident that there is a market for them. We have been selling this model in our web shop at $385 USD,- since we discovered the alloy was brass. It continued to sell as people just like the looks and price point. Please reply to this email and tell us which option you prefer and we will be in touch as soon as possible. Looking back, we realize we have failed to live up to our promise and have let you down. For this we apologize. What remains is our personal integrity and our promise to continue our business in the way we have done in the past: To our best knowledge, with our best intentions, driven by passion and believing in service with a personal touch. With best regards, Dion
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2012 03:52 pm |
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89th Post |
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Scart 3T WIS 
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Kudos to Benarus
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2012 08:36 pm |
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90th Post |
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Craustin1 3T WIS
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Better not Olivier, not after all this has happened before. It would be a shame and hard to explain to customers if this does happen. 
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2012 08:38 pm |
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91st Post |
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Craustin1 3T WIS
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Lum-tec has an upcoming bronze later this year. Is there more confidence with this release?
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2012 11:10 pm |
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92nd Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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I'm not sure about Olivier or Lum Tec,nor where they are expecting to find the CuSn8/CuSn7 aka European Red Bronze as I heard that it has been bought up by one of the major Asian manufacturers by way of one of the better known micro brands....I do know that there a are few micros who share the same manufacturer,and thus have this bronze available to them.Olivier/Lum Tec are not one of these micros. ...in conversation with a couple of the micro owners,and more recently an Italian bronze buckle maker I have been told that to the Chinese consider bronze =brass,and that kind of tells the story of how all this came to be....even if Magrette was able to find the red bronze they promised it would have cost them plenty to replace the cases...to the point of losing money on the whole venture,and I don't know too many small companies who would be able to endure that,and still stay afloat.I believe that Magrette made good a financial business decision by what they are offering...no one can argue with the choices at hand which include a full refund imho,as well as re-selling the returned watches for less money after some cosmetic remedies...win/win.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2012 11:34 am |
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93rd Post |
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Craustin1 3T WIS
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Makes sense, thx for the write up.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 05:41 pm |
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94th Post |
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movas 3T WIS
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Well, here's the insider's lowdown. This is from our personal experience trying to get a CuSn8 bronze case made for our dive watches in China. In China/ HK, there is no such thing as CuSn8. CuSn8 is an brand name of an alloy by a swiss company. A company in Germany sells a similar Copper Alloy but it goes by a different trade name. They only know of the following types of Brass. Yellow Brass (Pure copper), Green Brass, and Pink Brass. What everyone has been getting thus far is Yellow Brass. When we first asked for Bronze, that was what the case makers were suggesting. That's because Yellow Brass watch cases are already being made nowadays mostly for lowend/ cheap watches which then get plated. Brass is also widely used and easily available in the watch industry. When I told them NO, I want bronze, and bronze has a pinkish hue, they then told me, easy, just take the brass and plate it with rose gold! That's why some cases you have seen thus far have had a pinkish hue replicating CuSn8 Bronze but does not patina/ tarnish easily. As the pink hue is actually from a plating (which also tarnishes mind you, just not as quickly). When we tried to locate the material ourselves in China, we managed to find a couple of suppliers for Bronze. However Bronze is generally sold in sheet form. This is not suitable for watch making as it is too thin. In order to cast the required size for watch cases would entail 3.5 tonnes of CuSn8 to be processed. The closest thing you can get is what is called Tin Copper or Phosphorous Copper. However the composition varies, sometimes you may get CuSn6 and is not the same as CuSn8. The final solution we came up with was to actually 'create' the mixture for CuSn8 with a materials supplier in China. This is done by giving them the material composition and getting them to mix it and cast/ forge it. The purity for sure will not be similar to CuSn8 from switzerland/ germany but it will inevitably have a similar range of metal composition and be a lot cheaper. Do note that there is no real history in the usage of Bronze for watch cases. It is actually a new material introduced to the dive market, and in reality the material CuSn8 is only popular as it has been shown to be what is used by some of the bigger brands for their Bronze watch offering. Personally I feel that watch cases should not be constrained by this, that brands should be allowed the freedom to experiment with different alloys for a similar effect. But brands should be honest about what they are giving their customers, case in point Kazimon, not a CuSn8 case but a great selection of Bronze nonetheless. We are doing our version of CuSn8 because we like the colour/ hue, and the patina it gives. Hope that it works out well, it is a huge investment but it suits the look of our divers so we will try. That's the short version of the story by the way, hope you have a better understanding from where I am standing.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 05:49 pm |
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95th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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as I said in China bronze=brass....that's why Benarus,Helson,and Armida sourced their bronze from a German supplier...European Red bronze/CuSn8 as I mentioned above...there is NO bronze in China...Sean/Movas...what you will get will not be a cheaper from of CuSn8...there are enough WIS confused as I mentioned before without another composition coming into play....bronze is bronze ,...China bronze is brass...period!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 06:22 pm |
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96th Post |
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movas 3T WIS
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Hi Oscar, This is generally untrue. Bronze has been used in China for a long time now. Just not for watches AND not with the CuSn8 composition. Brass does not equate to Bronze in China or vise versa. If by Bronze you just mean CuSn8 and nothing else, then yes, it is not available in China in the form required for watches (as I mentioned they come in sheets). To me, getting material from another country so it can be processed in China does not make sense (and as i said, it's my opinion). You either get it swiss or german made. Making a Bronze with the same composition as CnSn8 in China is possible and what we are doing now. Like I said, it won't be as pure I am sure, an analysis after the fact will determine this, and the percentages we end up with. We will not advertise our watches as CnSn8 because that is not what it is (as I mentioned that is a tradename, not a material name).
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