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Bronze Watch Recall

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Posted: Fri Jul 13th, 2012 11:54 pm

oagaspar
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movas wrote: Hi Oscar,

This is generally untrue. Bronze has been used in China for a long time now. Just not for watches AND not with the CuSn8 composition. Brass does not equate to Bronze in China or vise versa. If by Bronze you just mean CuSn8 and nothing else, then yes, it is not available in China in the form required for watches (as I mentioned they come in sheets).

To me, getting material from another country so it can be processed in China does not make sense (and as i said, it's my opinion). You either get it swiss or german made.

Making a Bronze with the same composition as CnSn8 in China is possible and what we are doing now. Like I said, it won't be as pure I am sure, an analysis after the fact will determine this, and the percentages we end up with. We will not advertise our watches as CnSn8 because that is not what it is (as I mentioned that is a tradename, not a material name).
Sean...the bronze used in China,as you say "for a long time now" is called "Commercial bronze" ...known in other parts of the world as "Brass"...90% copper 10% zinc....send me one of your "Chinese bronze" watch cases with your new mix when you have a case made,and I will gladly test it for you...until then you are just blowing smoke my friend...

Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 08:02 am

movas
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Hi Oscar,

Honestly, you will be one of the first to receive one once it is done. As I explained to you before, we are now assembling the watches in house, so we purchase material ourselves and get cases made separately as opposed to ordering complete watches as most do and as we used to do before. Does this guarantee that I won't be shafted, well no, but it does limit the possibility and at least I will find out before it's too late down the chain.

This allows greater control, but involves alot more work. BTW, have you sent your AG back for a dial change?

oagaspar wrote: movas wrote: Hi Oscar,

This is generally untrue. Bronze has been used in China for a long time now. Just not for watches AND not with the CuSn8 composition. Brass does not equate to Bronze in China or vise versa. If by Bronze you just mean CuSn8 and nothing else, then yes, it is not available in China in the form required for watches (as I mentioned they come in sheets).

To me, getting material from another country so it can be processed in China does not make sense (and as i said, it's my opinion). You either get it swiss or german made.

Making a Bronze with the same composition as CnSn8 in China is possible and what we are doing now. Like I said, it won't be as pure I am sure, an analysis after the fact will determine this, and the percentages we end up with. We will not advertise our watches as CnSn8 because that is not what it is (as I mentioned that is a tradename, not a material name).
Sean...the bronze used in China,as you say "for a long time now" is called "Commercial bronze" ...known in other parts of the world as "Brass"...90% copper 10% zinc....send me one of your "Chinese bronze" watch cases with your new mix when you have a case made,and I will gladly test it for you...until then you are just blowing smoke my friend...

Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 08:04 am

Devin
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Movas what watches do you manufacture?

Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 10:39 am

oagaspar
Site Founder

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Location:	Akron, USA
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movas wrote: Hi Oscar,

Honestly, you will be one of the first to receive one once it is done. As I explained to you before, we are now assembling the watches in house, so we purchase material ourselves and get cases made separately as opposed to ordering complete watches as most do and as we used to do before. Does this guarantee that I won't be shafted, well no, but it does limit the possibility and at least I will find out before it's too late down the chain.

This allows greater control, but involves alot more work. BTW, have you sent your AG back for a dial change?

oagaspar wrote: movas wrote: Hi Oscar,

This is generally untrue. Bronze has been used in China for a long time now. Just not for watches AND not with the CuSn8 composition. Brass does not equate to Bronze in China or vise versa. If by Bronze you just mean CuSn8 and nothing else, then yes, it is not available in China in the form required for watches (as I mentioned they come in sheets).

To me, getting material from another country so it can be processed in China does not make sense (and as i said, it's my opinion). You either get it swiss or german made.

Making a Bronze with the same composition as CnSn8 in China is possible and what we are doing now. Like I said, it won't be as pure I am sure, an analysis after the fact will determine this, and the percentages we end up with. We will not advertise our watches as CnSn8 because that is not what it is (as I mentioned that is a tradename, not a material name).
Sean...the bronze used in China,as you say "for a long time now" is called "Commercial bronze" ...known in other parts of the world as "Brass"...90% copper 10% zinc....send me one of your "Chinese bronze" watch cases with your new mix when you have a case made,and I will gladly test it for you...until then you are just blowing smoke my friend...

as always I wish you the best Sean...your willingness to do things differently is what makes you who you are my friend...I hope the bronze venture is successful for you!

Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 10:41 am

oagaspar
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Devin wrote: Movas what watches do you manufacture?here you go Trent...

http://timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=21702&forum_id=1&highlight=movas

Attachment: 0 movas.jpg (Downloaded 112 times)

Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 12:39 pm

bigrustypig
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oagaspar wrote:
Devin wrote: Movas what watches do you manufacture?here you go Trent...

http://timetechtalk.com/view_topic.php?id=21702&forum_id=1&highlight=movas

That's a heck of a good lookin' watch, O. I like the boldness of the case. WOW!

And as for the confusion on bronze or hybrid bronze or virtual bronze, my opinion is that as long as the watch company is totally transparent on the material and the material's composition, that will be good enough for buyers like me. Glad to know that CuSn8 is a brand name and strictly speaking, not a material.

Posted: Sun Jul 15th, 2012 10:15 am

Hammerfjord
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CuSn8 is a chemical formula name, nothing else.
As this alloy is mainly maid of copper(Cu from latin Cuprum) and tin(Sn from latin Stannum) and 8 from the tin porcentage.
So it is an alloy basically made of 92% copper and 8% tin(more or less).
There is traces of other metals but it don't exceed 0.4% for the largest: Ni or Nickel.
See there:
http://www.foxwire.co.uk/userfiles/file/Phosphor%20Bronze%20CuSn8-PB104%20Datasheet(1).pdf
The CuSn6 spoken earlier in the thread is as well nothing else than an alloy with 94% of copper and 6% of tin.
Speaking of a deposed name is kind of ridiculous as this alloy been used since long in various industries.
It is just recently that it was used in watch cases.

Posted: Wed Jul 25th, 2012 09:18 am

cfm21665
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Hi guys, just to add some more info, I received my rebodied Zenton b42, about 2 weeks ago, and according to Zenton it uses AB5S (CuAl11Fe6Ni6), sourced from Germany. It cefrtainly is a huge difference from the brass case, it has a nice even patina, I've been on vacation at the beach so it has had hours upon hours of exposure to salt water day after day for the last two weeks, looks great. I'll try to post some pics of it as soon as I can .

Posted: Wed Jul 25th, 2012 10:10 am

Devin
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cfm21665 wrote:
Hi guys, just to add some more info, I received my rebodied Zenton b42, about 2 weeks ago, and according to Zenton it uses AB5S (CuAl11Fe6Ni6), sourced from Germany. It cefrtainly is a huge difference from the brass case, it has a nice even patina, I've been on vacation at the beach so it has had hours upon hours of exposure to salt water day after day for the last two weeks, looks great. I'll try to post some pics of it as soon as I can .
Thanks for the info. Photos would be great!

Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2012 08:40 am

movas
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This was our first prototype out from the forged mold with brass. FAIL! LOL, new bronze case sample should be out shortly.

It's getting busy here. Not sure when I'll ever get to actually selling watches!

Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2012 08:51 am

Hammerfjord
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movas wrote:
This was our first prototype out from the forged mold with brass. FAIL! LOL, new bronze case sample should be out shortly.

It's getting busy here. Not sure when I'll ever get to actually selling watches!

Very first time I see a watch case molded and not cut or stamped in fact.
It gives a vintage -eaten by the reef- look, who's after my meaning not so bad even many might think "WTF?.
I experienced newly with brass dials in salt water and got and "old marine bronze piece freshly out of the sea" look. Would be great on a case like that for those who like the "Reef look"

Posted: Wed Sep 12th, 2012 09:51 am

movas
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First sample, wrong case shape! lol. Also realised that bronze is softer than 316L, so have to make the crown protectors fixed instead of screwed into case, as it's hard to get the tolerance right.

Also have to look at some kind of clear coating as the bronze is oxidising too quickly especially in Singapore.

Last edited on Wed Sep 12th, 2012 09:54 am by movas

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